Episode 147 Show Notes

Episode 147. How do you like them apples?! When we discovered the Kinoene “ripe apple” Junmai Ginjo sake from Iinuma Honke Brewery, we knew we need to take a bite and find out what this unique sake is all about. This took us on a journey exploring yeast, acidity and some pretty extreme fruity flavors. It may very well be a case of comparing apples to oranges, but this fruity confection of a sake does share some traits with a typically bright and crisp white wine. The secret here is malic acid – often found in wine – which is given center stage in this sake. This type of acidity brings us to the delicious intersection of sweet and sour with a bright fruity flavor that will have you asking “how did they do that!?” If we can have it sake form, we’ll be glad to enjoy an apple a day to keep the doctor away. #SakeRevolution

Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 02:36 Iinuma Honke

Iinuma Honke
Iinuma Honke is located close to Narita Airport, the gateway to Japan. Our wish was to pass on knowledge about Japanese culture to the world from our town of Minami-Shisui, and since 2005, we have been welcoming visitors from Japan and numerous countries from around the world to enjoy our brewery tour. Customers may drink sake and dine in the brewery’s café nestled within the idyllic Japanese landscape and immerse themselves in the true Japanese ambiance. We hope that through this experience, our visitors may further appreciate the allure of Japanese culture as well as the products of Iinuma Honke.

Website: http://www.iinumahonke.co.jp/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iinumahonke/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kinoene_sake/

Skip to: 06:16 Kyokai Yeast #77
Kyokai yeast #77 is a modern yeast that produces about 70% of it’s acids as malic acid giving it a profile in sake that can mimic some white wine like characteristics.

Skip to: 10:41 Sake Tasting: Kinoene “Ripe Apple” Junmai Ginjo

Kinoene “Ripe Apple” Junmai Ginjo

Alcohol: 15.0%
Brewery: Iinuma Honke
Classification: Junmai Ginjo
Prefecture: Chiba
Seimaibuai: 55%
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku, Yamadanishiki
Importer/Distributor: Mutual Trading (NY)
Brand: Kinoene (甲子)
Yeast: 77
SMV: -17.0
Acidity: 3.0

view on UrbanSake.com

Skip to: 27:17 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

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Episode 147 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s First Sake podcast, and I’m your host, John Puma From the Sake Notes, also administrator over at the internet Sake Discord. the guy who runs the, r slash sake community over at Reddit. And but if you’re looking for the Sake Samurai, that’s the other guy.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:42
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai, sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 0:58
Tim, how have you been?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:00
Hey, I’m doing good. How are you?

John Puma: 1:03
I’m, I’m, I’m good. I’m really, really good. Uh, we, uh, went down to the, uh, farmer’s market, uh, last weekend

Timothy Sullivan: 1:11

John Puma: 1:11
And I went, I went Apple crazy. I got like six apples. They had the, the biggest honey crisps I’ve ever seen in my life. And I had to, I, I really like honey crisp apples. Uh, but they also, they had, uh, a type of apple called mutsu, which apparently is actually from, or, uh, originally from Aomori. But these are grown in New York.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:34
Sounds Japanese “mutsu”.

John Puma: 1:36
Yeah, no, it is that, it is that strain of apple and it’s a big green apple. that, it’s not like, I think Crispin is what they might call them domestically. but it is, that originally comes from Japan and very, very delicious, nice and juicy. Uh, they’re not, you know, they’re, they’re green, but they’re not like granny Smiths. They’re more like golden delicious. But really, really good stuff. I can be a little bit of an Apple nerd sometimes.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:58

John Puma: 1:58
Not all the

Timothy Sullivan: 1:59
Not an ice

John Puma: 2:00
Not an ice nerd. No, we leave that to you.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:02
Well, you know, this is quite a coincidence because I bought something at the store with a giant apple on it.

John Puma: 2:10

Timothy Sullivan: 2:12
And it happens to be, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a bottle of sake with a giant ruby red apple hanging tag hanging off of it. Have you ever seen that?

John Puma: 2:23
I, I, I might have and, and, uh, use the word coincidence. Did you

Timothy Sullivan: 2:27
I do as we

John Puma: 2:30
co I have a feeling that maybe, uh, this might be the tail wagging the dog here, but.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:36
So John and I found this sake. We, just had to get,

John Puma: 2:40

Timothy Sullivan: 2:41
it is a ripe apple Junmai Ginjo and it has a giant hang tag hanging off the neck in the shape of a red apple. To see a picture, visit SakeRevolution.com. Show notes as always. But John, when we saw this bottle, we just couldn’t resist it. Right.

John Puma: 3:04
We could not resist at all. It’s, it’s, you get me with the gimmicks like that every time. But, uh, in this case, it was actually from a brand that you and I are familiar with here in New York, like a lot of their stuff gets imported here. called Kinoene and yeah, we, we saw they had this, this new product and then it was ripe Apple related. We felt like we needed to get it for the show and talk about it.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:31
Yes, so the brewery name is Iinuma Honke, and they’re from Chiba Prefecture, and they have a history of over 300 years. So this brewery’s been around a long time, and Chiba is just north of. Tokyo, probably most famous for having Narita Airport, right?

John Puma: 3:51
Yes. I think that a lot of people refer to, Chiba somewhat dismissively as the New Jersey.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:58

John Puma: 3:59
Uh, yes. So, you know, it’s like if, if, if Tokyo is New York, then uh, Chiba. is sort of the New jersey, the suburbs, um,

Timothy Sullivan: 4:09

John Puma: 4:10
yes, the, the place where people, uh, live sometimes and they’re, and, and they’ll use the airport over there, that kind of thing.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:17
Well, this brewery has a long, long history and we’ve known their brand, Kinoene, for a long time.

John Puma: 4:24

Timothy Sullivan: 4:25
You know, when I talk about this brand, the one thing that has always stood out to me is that they make really good sake, but I think they aim to make really affordable, approachable, premium sake.

John Puma: 4:38
Yeah, I agree. I think that that’s one of their, like hallmarks, all their stuff is very approachable, very light sippable. quaffable we like to say on the show sometimes you specifically like to say that. and I think that that’s, you know, nice, easy drinking sake. It is a place for that, especially in my

Timothy Sullivan: 4:58
Yeah, and not just the style John, but also the price. Like they charge 23 to 25 bucks for a standard bottle of, and that’s the entry for premium sake. Like you can’t get things cheaper than that for a 720, and the fact that it’s such good quality, so easy drinking and right. At the super approachable price point,

John Puma: 5:24

Timothy Sullivan: 5:24
that’s a win-win in my book,

John Puma: 5:26
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I am a fan and that’s, that’s a big part of the reason. You know, great sake, low price. I’m, sign me up. so yeah, when we saw this new product, we had to get in the door and see what it was all about. so, Tim, what is it all about?

Timothy Sullivan: 5:45
All I can do is read you what the label says, John. It says Kinoene apple possesses an elegant fragrance and is well-balanced between sweetness and acidity.

John Puma: 5:57

Timothy Sullivan: 5:57
So I think we can expect a little sweetness and I think we can expect some acidity as well.

John Puma: 6:04
All right. did, they, they just think it tastes like apples. Did they squeeze some apple juice into it? What’s, what, what’s the apple connection?

Timothy Sullivan: 6:11
No, apple juice is in there.

John Puma: 6:13
Thankfully, because then it wouldn’t be sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:16
That’s right, John. You know, as you know, we’ve done some episodes in the past that focus on yeast. And the yeast using this particular sake is really unique and special. It’s called Kyokai 77. Now, when you hear this word Kyokai in front of a yeast number that stands for association. And that would be the brewers association that maintains a line of yeast that the brewers can buy and then use to ferment their sake. These association yeasts are numbered in Japan. So for example, there’s like a yeast number seven. There’s a yeast number nine, there’s a yeast number 1801. And in this case, it’s yeast 77. Now this particular yeast is known for a few things. But of specific interest to us is that about 65% of the acid produced by this particular yeast is a type of acid known as malic acid. And it’s unique because that is not common in sake at all. It’s not case much more likely to have a type of acid known as lactic acid. And not lactic acid gives those dairy butter and cream flavors and aroma that are common in some sakes. But malic acid is much more common in white wine.

John Puma: 7:39

Timothy Sullivan: 7:39
And it lends a brightness and acidity to wine. And I’m curious if we’re going to find that here in the sake as well. Now I found a fun fact when I was looking up malic acid, malic acid actually gets its name from the Latin word Malum, which means apple. Right? So I think we’re beginning to see the connection here, Kinoene wanted to tap into the bright acidity of apples. And I think they found their way to that through this special yeast number 77, which really kind of overflows with malic acid.

John Puma: 8:18
That’s interesting. That’s especially interesting. That sounds like a lot of fun. All right, so

Timothy Sullivan: 8:24
what, what do you think about the presentation of the bottle here with this giant, this giant hang tag?

John Puma: 8:30
the hang tag is very cute.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:32
it’s very cute.

John Puma: 8:33
is very cute. I do like the label in general. It’s got like parchment paper color to the background. It’s not white necessarily, but it is, uh, that off-white. The font is a very kind of modern take on, on like Kanji so everything is, looks very, it’s very stylized in a way that is like, kind of like technological looking, but also kind of, Egyptian almost looks like hieroglyphics in a way, especially since they made it gold. Uh, they made the lettering gold. And you know, you guys need to kind of take a pause real fast and look at the show notes so you can see what we’re talking about here. It’s very important. It’s hard to do a visual when we’re chatting

Timothy Sullivan: 9:10
and one, one word is highlighted on the label in red. It says Kinoene Apple, and then ripe.

John Puma: 9:19

Timothy Sullivan: 9:20
Ripe apple.

John Puma: 9:22
Yeah. No, no. Since they’re just using the, the yeast cannot speak for the ripeness.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:28
Well, I think the, I’m, I’m gonna guess here that the impression of the flavor is very juicy, ripe apple. That’s kind of what they’re going for,

John Puma: 9:38
I think that’s what they’re probably going for too.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:41
we’ve solved the mystery.

John Puma: 9:42
We did. We did. Sometimes we gotta be a little funny though.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:47
All right. Well I do have a quote from the brewery about the use of this apple hang tag. It’s, it, again, it’s very distinctive and they said that the using apple in the product name and as a bottleneck ornament, they are hoping that it will leave an impression that adds a pop of color. And it certainly does, uh, by utilizing. The sharp form of topography for the label. They hope to introduce a different perspective from traditional sake labels, so they’re going for something totally different, and it certainly caught our eye, didn’t it?

John Puma: 10:28
Yeah. Uh, for certain, I do like the font choices on the label. I thought they were, they were pretty interesting and cool, but honestly, that’s not what caught my eye. It’s the hang tag. The hang tag caught my eye.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:38
the ripe apple.

John Puma: 10:39
The ripe apple caught my eye. You really

Timothy Sullivan: 10:41
Okay, Okay, so John, do you wanna give us the stats for this sake? We talked about the yeast already, but what, what else is going on with this sake?

John Puma: 10:53
Well, um, so as you mentioned, this is the Kinoene. ripe Apple Junmai Ginjo. this is from IInuma Honke over in Chiba, pre fixture. Don’t let them call it New Jersey. Uh, We have two rices in play here. The Yamadanishiki and the Gohyakumangoku both of them have been milled down to 55% of their original size. the yeast, as you mentioned, is that Kyokai, number 77, the sake meter value. Here’s what things get interesting, Tim. Uh, that measure of dry to sweet is a staggering minus 17. Woo. This could have been on an extreme series. but, but I do think it is gonna be offset a little bit because the next set is acidity, which is at three.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:46

John Puma: 11:46
So a three acidity with a sake meter value of negative 17. It’s gonna be interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:51

John Puma: 11:52
and, uh, of course alcohol by volume is 15%.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:55
All right. Well, John, I can’t wait any longer.

John Puma: 12:00
Great. Let’s

Timothy Sullivan: 12:02
ripe Apple is calling my name, so let’s get this in the glass.

John Puma: 12:05
let’s get this in my glass.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:15
So in the glass, this has a, just a, just a hint of yellowish color, but pretty clear. Let’s give this super ripe apple a smell.

John Puma: 12:25

Timothy Sullivan: 12:26
Hmm. Smells good.

John Puma: 12:29
It does.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:30
Smells like ripe fruit.

John Puma: 12:33
Mm. Yeah, this is, um, right up my alley.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:37

John Puma: 12:38
Mm. That’s really nice. And it’s, it’s not, it’s not the melon bomb. It’s not the tropical fruit. It’s fruity. It’s a different fruit.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:48
You think about pear and apple, those seeded fruits have a little bit.

John Puma: 12:53
And, and maybe the power of suggestion with the apple, I’m not

Timothy Sullivan: 12:56
Hmm, definitely. I mean, there’s a giant apple hang tag that’s hypnotizing me.

John Puma: 13:02
swaying it back and forth in front of you.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:04
I mean, if I were to. Assess this without the apple hang tag, I might get a hint of pineapple as well. Like for me, there’s, there’s fruitiness going on,

John Puma: 13:14

Timothy Sullivan: 13:15
uh, maybe papaya. I think especially of pineapple skin, like when you pick up a unpeeled pineapple and you smell it, you get that pineapple, skin aroma. I get a little bit of that. It does smell appley, a little bit of pear, but it’s in the fruit, the fruit zone. Not the friend zone, but the fruit zone.

John Puma: 13:35
Hmm. Yeah, and it’s, it is, A lovely aroma. I, I mean, it’s something I keep going back to and I’m like, oh, I’m gonna enjoy this some more. I’m gonna bring some more into my, into my sinuses. All right, Tim, are you ready to sip?

Timothy Sullivan: 13:49
Yes. oh my gosh. Holy high acid. Batman. That is high acidity.

John Puma: 14:00
Mm-hmm. I believe you mentioned that a little acidity, goes a long way with sake. And this is a three, which is a lot. So, and it is kind of, you know, it is offsetting that minus 17. I think this does not come across as being alarmingly sweet.

Timothy Sullivan: 14:14
Well, I have two things to say. One is that, reminding our listeners that acidity normally plays in the range of 1.0 to 2.0, and this is up at 3.0. So this acidity is really high for sake in general. And the other thing is about the minus 17. Remember when we talk about this S M V, we’re talking about the density of the sake versus water. And even though we may not pick up on super overt sweetness, Think about the density of the sake on your palate. It’s got a coating quality to it, and it’s got a richness, right?

John Puma: 14:49
Mm-hmm. When you, when you move this around in the glass the, um, the legs on the glass are intense. Like it is, it is leaving a lot behind when you swirl it.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:01
So it’s got a very coating mouth feel to it. All the while having a very high acid profile. It kind of. pucker your cheeks a little bit with the acidity. And I think when you talk about new wave of wine like sakes, this is really what’s in that zone.

John Puma: 15:18
It is, it seems like that’s what they’re going for with this, with this new product. It is also, I, I wanna say that the, the intensity of it, the high acidity, there’s a burst to it also reminds me a lot of, uh, of unpasteurized sake, even though this is pasteurized. And I think that’s an interesting little trick.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:40
It’s that promise of ripeness that they made on the label.

John Puma: 15:44

Timothy Sullivan: 15:45
It really does taste ripe and juicy without being unpasteurized.

John Puma: 15:51
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve experienced the sake that ta that that tasted this unpasteurized while being, as far as I can tell, double pasteurized

Timothy Sullivan: 16:00

John Puma: 16:01
Very interesting. Now, now being, even though this is a pretty intense sake, I think this is something very sippable too. I’m enjoying just drinking it. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:10

John Puma: 16:11
I am a touch at a loss though about what I would pair this with.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:16

John Puma: 16:17
are you thinking?

Timothy Sullivan: 16:18
Well, you know, John, there’s one thing that popped to mind. I don’t know if I’m just craving this or if it’s something that I think would pair well, no, it’ll pair well. But if you have, like, I know cheese is not your thing, but cheese and crackers, like if you had like an apple chutney over cheese and crackers, like that’s so yummy. So a mild, buttery cheese with a cracker for texture. And then, normally one thing I’d like to do with that situation is drizzle honey on that. Or put an apple chutney or a pear chutney. And this sipping this sake instead of a chutney or a honey would be an amazing combination. So the saltiness and the creaminess of cheese along with this would go really well.

John Puma: 17:07
I can see that. I mean, apart from the cheese part, no. you know, when you said crackers, I was immediately like, Yeah. like, so you mentioned that this is, this has a, a thick, you know, it’s, it is a thick sake. It has a, a coating effect on the mouth, which means it does like, kind of build on itself. And when you’re having a sip of it, and then you have another sip of it, it’s, it’s not just what you had before. It’s, it’s a little more intense. And I think that having some crackers to kind of break that up and just kind of neutralize me a little bit, uh, kind of like, it’s like the reverse of when we have like a rich food and a dry sake. And the dry sake helps you to like reset. It’s like, you know, I want the crackers to help me reset from the sake as a sake is so big.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:52
Yeah. That is one of the dangers of namas or Super rich, sweeter sakes, is that they can Become a little bit intense. People often say, oh, I can only have one glass of that. If you know something that borders on a dessert sake or something that has that richness, it’s to drink several glasses cuz it’s not a refreshing style. It’s more of a juicy style.

John Puma: 18:16
And this is something that I’m enjoying, sipping on it right now, but I can’t do this bottle This bottle’s under no threat for disappearing tonight. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s really tasty, but it’s a lot. And you do need, like, I need to, you need to step back. It does have that, you know, that, uh, as you pointed out, that nama, that almost nama effect where your palate gets a little tired. It’s just, it’s so big.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:38
Yeah, but I think the flavor profile is up your alley.

John Puma: 18:44
Oh yeah, certainly. It definitely is up my alley. yeah, and, and again, I’m just really surprised they’re able to capture so much of that, NAMA identity in something that is most definitely not a nama. It’s really interesting to me.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:59
Yeah. And the fact that they’ve brought out. Really distinct apple flavor with no apple in there at all. It’s the magic of fermentation, I don’t think consumers, we could definitely forgive them for thinking that they have infused apple flavor in here. Right?

John Puma: 19:16
It’s the flavor they’re kind of chasing after when they choose that yeast. It’s really interesting. The thing about this sake is that they’re using that yeast. They got a big apple on the front here. I don’t think everybody at home necessarily caught all of our episodes, and maybe we need a little bit of a refresher on what exactly yeast brings to the party here.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:33
Yeah, yeast is so important. Yeast, of course, is a microorganism, and if you know anything about fermentation, you know the role that yeast plays is so consequential yeast is actually a fungus. Did you know that that yeast is in the fungus kingdom?

John Puma: 19:54
I did not, and I’m never gonna view yeast the same way again.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:59
I refer to yeast as the engine of fermentation, and with sake, we talk about alcoholic fermentation, but there’s other types of fermentation too that we use for baking and things like that. But for sake, we’re dealing with alcoholic fermentation, and yeast is a microorganism that. Eats sugar, consumes sugar, and then as a byproduct of its digestion, gives off alcohol and CO2 as byproducts,

John Puma: 20:33
No, that’s a very fun microorganism, is what you’re saying.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:38
and not only alcohol and co2, but also acids are given off by yeast, and those acids can convert into aroma compounds. So they’re hunting for these yeasts that are gonna give them these specific attributes that they want when it produces alcohol and acids to influence the flavor and aromas in very specific ways. So, so that’s, that’s one of the really unique things about yeast, and it is so integral. The, the, the magic of sake is that the interplay of the, the role that Koji plays breaking down starch into sugar, and then yeast again, that engine of fermentation that eats the sugar and produces the alcohol, and, you know, this is KK number 77. And that’s amazing that over the last decades they’ve isolated many approved delicious yeasts to use in sake.

John Puma: 21:41
A whole library of them by now.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:43
Yes, there’s a whole Rolodex

John Puma: 21:45

Timothy Sullivan: 21:47

John Puma: 21:47
I think that’s great. I think that’s, you know, I think that adds, potential variety to, to the flavors that sake couldn’t have. and when you think about all the other variables that you can include in that, like the rice types where the rice are growing, the kind of water or how you’re brewing, you can really come up with endless, perhaps 10,000.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:07
10,000 ways.

John Puma: 22:09
Yeah. Thousand, 10,000 ways to make sake. Uh, and I think I love it. I think it’s great.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:14
Yeah, the, the one thing that’s gonna blow your mind though is that some breweries experiment with blending yeasts as well. It’s not the case here with our delicious, ripe apple from kinoene, but some breweries are gonna mix two yeast together when they do that fermentation starter and get an even more complex outcome.

John Puma: 22:36
Yeah, I think we, we definitely have had dually yeast sakes on the show before. I wanna say the most, the most intense version of that concept I have ever seen, uh, was actually something in Japan. They, they did not export this, uh, from a brewery in Akita they called Royal Flush and it had like playing cards and everything on it, and it was five different rices and five different yeast.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:05
In one sake.

John Puma: 23:06

Timothy Sullivan: 23:07
Oh my God.

John Puma: 23:09
And that was, that was taking that idea and just going as far as you could

Timothy Sullivan: 23:16
Oh my God.

John Puma: 23:18
because you can, it’s uh, really interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:23
yeah, we’ve said this before, like that is so important, that type of innovation.

John Puma: 23:30

Timothy Sullivan: 23:30
Pushing the envelope, trying new yeast brewing to a higher acidity brewing to a higher sweetness brewing to a higher umami. All these things are so important to expand the palette of what sake can be.

John Puma: 23:44
Yeah. yes. Absolutely. And it, it redefines what sake could be every time. It’s wonderful

Timothy Sullivan: 23:51
So do you think they achieved what they said? The balance of, let me get this quote right.

John Puma: 23:56

Timothy Sullivan: 23:57
The balance between sweetness and acidity. Do you think they achieved that with this ripe apple?

John Puma: 24:03
Hmm. Well, you pointed out that it was very acidic,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:07

John Puma: 24:08
but I pointed out that it was still pretty sweet.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:11

John Puma: 24:11
Hmm. Uh, I think,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:14
you got your chocolate in my peanut butter.

John Puma: 24:17
exactly, uh, I think that, you know, there the sweetness is there, the acidity is still present. But I mean, you ha it has to be high acidity to counteract that, to counteract that sweetness.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:29
Well the, this is one thing we haven’t talked about yet that is important is the finish.

John Puma: 24:36

Timothy Sullivan: 24:36
the the aftertaste, oh my gosh. This, this lingers for a long time on your palate, and it makes my mouth water like the, the acidity is so high. It really does get your saliva going like a high acid wine would. And that’s not common for sake. Do you, do you feel that as well? John,

John Puma: 24:54
I do

Timothy Sullivan: 24:56
are you drooling?

John Puma: 24:58
no, I’m not drooling, but I’m like, you know, so when you talk, if you have too much liquid in your mouth, that like comes out when you’re, when you’re speaking, uh, it, it changes. It influences your voice a little bit. And so, I try to like neutralize it are possible and I can tell when my, like when my saliva is very thick and all that, and the sake was definitely doing that to me and I’m sitting, I’m like, I’m sipping water. I’m like doing, seeing what I can do to like neutralize this.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:24
this is an occupational hazard for podcasters, isn’t it?

John Puma: 25:27
Yes. Yeah, apparently it is. It’s a today. I learned that that’s an occupational hazard for podcasters. I will take it. I’ll accept that. I’ll take that burden.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:42
Yeah, but I, what you said before is so on point that you know those dry clean sakes that I love really cleanse your palate and it’s the sakes job to cleanse your palate and these higher acid, more viscous sakes. Need a palate cleanser of some other kind, but they just fit a different place in cuisine and pairing, right?

John Puma: 26:04
Yeah. Uh, and I, and it’s, it’s a lot of fun to have it like turned on its head like

Timothy Sullivan: 26:12
I am very happy we stumbled on this. Ripe apple sake. This was a lot of fun

John Puma: 26:18
Yes, definitely. Uh, I’m a big fan.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:21
it’s cool to see what brewers are doing with like their marketing and their messaging and their styles. I think a lot of thought and a lot of effort went into making this sake and it’s from a great brewery and a lot of fun.

John Puma: 26:34
Yeah. And, and I had a, a great time getting to talk about it and getting to sip it with you. it’s a fun sake and, I like the idea of Giving this brewery a little bit of a profile, a little bit of a boost.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:47
All right. Well, John, great to taste with you and such a fun sake to try together. I also want to thank our listeners for tuning in again this week. Uh, special. Hello and thank you to all of our patrons. If you enjoy Sake Revolution and you wanna support us too, the best way to do that is to visit Patreon.com/SakeRevolution and check out our community there. We hope you’ll join us.

John Puma: 27:10
Another great way to support us is to head over to SakeRevolution.com and pick out. Your favorite t-shirt? we also have stickers. we do sell shirts. We have, other. Items coming soon. I say that a lot, but they are, I promise. And, um, and also while you’re at the site, please make sure you check out the show notes, uh, so you can see the apple hang tag that we’ve been talking about. You really don’t fully understand what we’re talking about with this sake bottle until you see it. and again, a lot of fun drinking the sake. It was good. So on that note, Tim raise your glass. Remember to keep drinking ripe apple sake. And Kanpai!