Episode 86 Show Notes
Episode 86. This week, we take on a listener request and roll out the barrel – the sake barrel that is. Taru sake is a unique style of sake that is aged in “sugi” or Japanese cedar. This barrel aging allows the sake to take on a warm, woody and soothing aroma and flavor. At the first sip it is unmistakeable, but also mysterious. Once upon a time in Japan, all sake was Taru, as this wood was the principal material used to construct wooden brewing tanks and shipping barrels. With the advent of stainless steel tanks and glass bottles for shipping in the 20th century, Taru sake has evolved into more of a niche style. For fans of Taru, the finest cedar is recognized as coming from the Yoshino forest in Nara. So let’s listen in as we explore the barrel-aged beauty of taru sake.
Skip to: 00:19
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
Introduction to Yoshino Sugi Taru sake and barrel making:
Some good info on the stewardship of the Yoshino Forest in Nara Prefecture:
Choryo Yoshino Sugi no Taru Sake
Brewery: Choryo Shuzo
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.
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Episode 86 Transcript
John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast. I’m your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes, the administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord And the old fashioned sake nerd.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:38
And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am a Sake Samurai, sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and also chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.
John Puma: 0:56
Hello, Tim, how are you doing
Timothy Sullivan: 0:57
Doing good. You know, I’m very happy because we got some listener mail.
John Puma: 1:05
This time we have a request.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:08
we got a great, great show idea from one of our listeners and we decided that would make a perfect topic for today.
John Puma: 1:17
Excellent. And, uh, and what is it, what are we talking about?
Timothy Sullivan: 1:20
Well, we are going to be talking about a style of sake known as Taru sake, T A R U
John Puma: 1:28
taru. sake. Now, if memory serves taru sake is Cedar cask matured sake, right?
Timothy Sullivan: 1:38
Uh, yeah, that’s right. I guess the show’s over.
John Puma: 1:43
Well, thank you very much, everybody. Now we have an email address set. Uh, wow. That was an easy one. sorry. Yes, the basic is yes. taru sake is sake. That’s aged in a Cedar cask,
Timothy Sullivan: 1:55
John Puma: 1:57
Timothy Sullivan: 1:57
that’s the cliff note for?
John Puma: 1:58
there’s going to be more to it than that. I hope if please tell me there’s more to it than that, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:04
Yes, there is there, there is a region of Japan that specializes in Taru sake and that’s because they have a special forest where a special type of Japanese Sugi or Japanese Cedar tree is grown. And I, I looked up all different types of. Details and information about this cedar and about the barrels that they use to age Taru sake for the most traditional breweries that do this. So there is a lot to dive in on, And the brand we’re going to be tasting today is called Yoshi no Sugi. And the brewery is Choryo, choryo
John Puma: 2:51
Timothy Sullivan: 2:52
Yeah, but the Yoshi no Sugi is the important part. Yoshino is the name of the forest where these special Cedar trees grow.
John Puma: 3:03
Timothy Sullivan: 3:04
And this is like the crew. This is the Yamada Nishiki of Japanese Cedar.
John Puma: 3:11
All right. All right. Now don’t see. It’s like a, it’s like kind of a big deal, like in the history of sake though, right?
Timothy Sullivan: 3:19
Yes. For hundreds of years, Cedar was used to make the fermentation tanks and also the shipping barrels. So they would use Cedar for just about everything. So for, for a long time, I think all sake by default was Taru sake because it was brewed in Cedar and it was shipped in Cedar, that all shifted in the early 20th century, when enamel lined steel came into use for. Uh, fermentation tanks and also bottles began being used instead of barrels for shipping.
John Puma: 3:56
Hmm. so you’re saying that steel and glass ruined the party for taru.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:03
Yep. And, uh, Taru actually for brewing the giant fermentation barrels they used to use. Those are very difficult to keep clean and sanitary. So bringing in the enamel line steel tanks is actually a big improvement for. avoiding any contamination in the sake. So that was a big step forward, but it made taru sake kind of retreat into this more historical style. So it’s not common. You don’t see it as much anymore, but there are breweries that specialize in this. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today.
John Puma: 4:37
Oh, okay, cool. How far into your sake journey were you when you first had taru sake? you had to estimate, I imagine you’re not going to know.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:50
that’s a great question. You know, taru sake is available here in New York. I remember having it maybe in the first year that I
John Puma: 5:01
Timothy Sullivan: 5:01
was into sake.
John Puma: 5:03
Timothy Sullivan: 5:04
I remember thinking how strange it was.
John Puma: 5:07
It took me a while to, um, to come across. didn’t know it was a thing, so I wasn’t seeking it out. And when I eventually came across it, oh, somebody is like, Oh, this is like, you know, cause cask aged stuff in the wine world in, uh, in, in a lot of different things, you know, in certain whiskeys, aging, something in a cask is, it’s a thing like it is, uh, it’s a technique. Bleeds flavor into the beverage and it’s used in so many different types of drinks. And sake has that also. And I just, I just, there was no way for me to know that. So it was kind of funny when it came along, I was like, oh, all right, Cedar. Sure. And I was surprised it was a very interesting cause it. And I don’t want to spoil the rest of the show, but I think that the Cedar does typically come through a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:00
Oh, yeah, for sure.
John Puma: 6:02
So, Tim, have you had something that was like aged in like red wine casks or Sherry casks or something like that? Like, uh, maybe, maybe a whiskey or, or, uh, something along those lines.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:13
Yeah. You know, I have, I, of course I’ve had. Uh, some whiskey I’ve tried, I’ve had wine that has Oak on it. You know, that Oak aging of wine is quite a common flavor. And, uh, what other, what other types of barrel aging do we have?
John Puma: 6:34
uh, I’ve had a red wines that were aged in bourbon barrels.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:38
John Puma: 6:39
And that, that adds a little bit of a little something, a little something, something to the wine. And, there really is a difference. Like it’s something that’s, it’s not like a situation where you’re like, well, you really can’t taste it. It’s like, no, you really, you can really taste it.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:55
Yes. And in the case of whiskey, it’s like a big part of what gives whiskey its color and flavor comes from that barrel aging. And one interesting contrast with this Taru aged sake. People may think it sits in there for years and comes out super dark in color. But generally Taru sake ages from two to three weeks in a Cedar barrel.
John Puma: 7:24
Hm. I mean, I guess that makes a certain amount of sense because it does those things are so strong. It’s about imparting flavor on the beverage that I think that if you, if you often in there longer, you’d have a, almost, it would become distracting.
Timothy Sullivan: 7:38
Yes. And when these, when the wood from the Yoshino forest, this special type of Cedar, when it’s cut, it is very fragrant, lots of oils in the wood. And when those barrels are fresh, they impart a lot of flavor very quickly into the sake. So I think they try to treat it with a more gentle hand so that it doesn’t get to that overpowering place.
John Puma: 8:08
Timothy Sullivan: 8:08
Yeah. And the sake that we’re tasting today, I read that the barrels that they make, they make them in-house. So the brewery not only makes the sake, but they have craftsmen on staff that build these barrels out of freshly cut, Yoshino, Cedar, and they reuse the barrels only up to three times, and then they get discarded recycled. So. The wood that they’re aging in is really quite, quite fresh and impactful for the, for the sake.
John Puma: 8:45
and you mentioned that these Yoshino, Cedar is considered premium is carers it’s considered special, is there a specific part that they’re utilizing for this or is it just the whole thing?
Timothy Sullivan: 8:58
Well, I think I forgot to mention that this is in Nara prefecture. So the Yoshino forest is actually the first. Manmade forested area in Japan. So these trees were planted on purpose and grown in an area. So this is the first place in Japan, where they did active manmade forestation. And they’ve been maintaining this forest for about 500 years. So this goes back very far in history, and it’s one of the first kind of cultivated forest that they had in Japan. And. They planted the trees very close together, and that makes the trees grow up tall and skinny. And they did that so that there would be fewer knots and blemishes on the tree. When you let the tree go very wide and big and fat, it can have more knots and imperfections in the wood so that the Yoshino Cedar trees tend to be very tall and very skinny. And. There’s a red center to the tree, right at the very core kind of comes out red and the wood gets whiter as you move towards the edge. And they found the perfect place in the tree to cut the staves for the barrels is just outside that red area. They call that the kotsuki section if you did a cross section of the tree, right where the color shifts from red to a wider color, that area It has been deemed the most precious and the most desirable for making these Cedar barrels.
John Puma: 10:37
Oh, so it’s a specific forest specific trees from a planned. Cultivated forest and then specific parts of those specific
Timothy Sullivan: 10:48
John Puma: 10:49
Ah, this is sounding more Japanese by the moment.
Timothy Sullivan: 10:52
One of the coolest things when I was reading about these barrels is that they are put together with no nails. No adhesives of any kind it is tension holding.
John Puma: 11:03
Timothy Sullivan: 11:06
Well, they make strips of bamboo and they weave them together. like a wreath. And then those are what in the Western world, we would have like metal rings on the outside of a barrel. They use these woven bamboo circles, and then the staves are all around in a circle. And then they wedge in a bottom and they wedge on a top and it’s all cuts. So precisely that not one drop of sake, leaks through any of these edges. And it’s all precision cutting. And just, it just blows your mind that it’s just held together with wood and bamboo and that’s it.
John Puma: 11:46
My mind is blown. And, uh, this is dark magic that you’re describing to me. Like how do you, I don’t think number one, I don’t think I can make a barrel with adhesive. Yeah. But, uh, much less, you know, not being allowed to use those things. I think if you put me on a desert island and was like, Okay. we’ll let you off the island. If you can construct a barrel out of this, out of this, Taru. And, and then we’ll give you some bamboo, I’d be like, all right, you know what I’m saying? I’m comfortable on the island. I’m going to connect. I’ll ask them if I can have a partially deflated, volleyball and adopt it. And I’m just gonna decide that’s my that’s my new place. That’s impressive. That’s very impressive, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan: 12:29
Yeah, it’s amazing. And the craftsmen that make these barrels, it’s kind of a disappearing art too, unfortunately. Uh, so hopefully they’ll train some more people and get some younger people involved in this barrel making, but it is, it’s a true look back in history. Like this used to be the default way to ship sake was make these barrels out of wood and, you know, ship the sake and. They discovered the time it takes to age, they used to ship the barrels from Nara Overland to Osaka and then using a boat. They would load up the boat with these barrels and then they would sail the boat up the coast to Tokyo formerly called Edo. Oh. And those days of being on the water and the barrels getting rocked back and forth. And soaking in all this tar flavor, this became a very desirable, uh by-product of the shipping. So, uh, that’s how taru kind of grew in popularity when it started to reach the major population centers like Tokyo.
John Puma: 13:41
So that, that Taru seeping into it. Wasn’t the intent. It was a happy byproduct of the trip.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:48
That’s my understanding. It
John Puma: 13:50
That’s kind of cool.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:52
like it was. The, uh, it was, it was a material they could use to ship in that they felt added to the flavor. And, uh, that was something that we’re going to experience in just a minute here. Really
John Puma: 14:08
Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of experiencing it, we do of course, have a taru sake with us today that we’re going to taste and we’re going to talk about, and. Is the, a Choryo Yoshino Sugi, obviously, you know, she know being the forest, being the, the Cedar, uh, no Taru sake, so it Taru Sake of Yoshino sugi. it’s Choryo Shuzo the. Uh, the seimaibuai, the rice is, um, milled it down to 70%. Don’t have information about exactly what rice they’re using. the alcohol percentage is 15 and a half. The acidity is 1.2 and that’s sake meter value that measure of dryness to sweetness is zero. So it has the same gravity as water.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:05
I want to mention one other thing about thisbrewery Choryo.. Now we talked about a lot of breweries in the past that are 300 years old, 400 years old. This one, they started bottling taru sake in 1964.
John Puma: 15:24
Timothy Sullivan: 15:25
Yeah. This is like, this is like a baby brewery. This is like just, just started in the sixties. So yeah. Shocking.
John Puma: 15:33
I, I was fully expecting you to tell me that like the, the, the, this brewery started that forest 500 years ago. I was ex that’s what I was getting ready for the, for the, for the mic drop on. But no, 1960, I was not expecting 1960 anything.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:50
Yeah, no, I gotta, I got to keep you on your toes.
John Puma: 15:54
I am on my toes. Tim.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:56
So the founder is Teiichi Iida. And he started in the bottling business and became a lover of taru sake. And in 1964, he started bottling Taru in glass bottles. So according to their website, this is one of the first taru Sakes to be shipped in a glass bottle versus shipped in a traditional Cedar barrel. So this was kind of bringing taru sake a step into the more modern age, and they did that in the early sixties. And they’ve been a well-known producer of taru sake since then.
John Puma: 16:33
Hm. Well then,
Timothy Sullivan: 16:36
John Puma: 16:37
Yeah. Uh, I, I like you always find these little trivia bits, Tim, highly appreciate
Timothy Sullivan: 16:41
Yeah. All right. Shall we open?
John Puma: 16:44
Yes. Let’s open up our taru sake. So this sake is astonishingly clear
Timothy Sullivan: 17:06
John Puma: 17:07
we said it’s the same weight as water, but it looks like it’s this, it looks like it’s. Same color. Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:11
Yeah. And for being exposed to wood for three weeks, you think it would take on a noticeable amount of color, but it’s super, super subtle, very clear. The label of this bottle is also interesting. It has. Like an 18 hundreds woodblock print of a barrel maker making a very large Taru sake barrel. Do you see that
John Puma: 17:37
Yes, very large in that he’s in the barrel on its side. And it’s like three of him tall.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:46
Yeah. So this would probably be a brewing barrel. But we have the, all the equipment that I saw in the videos for making these barrels. It’s pretty much unchanged and that’s a beautiful historical looking label. Love it.
John Puma: 18:01
Um, and, uh, on the nose, Tim, are you, are you getting What, I’m getting? This is not subtle guys. This is. Um, this is age in a Cedar barrel. And when you put your nose up to this, it, you get that Cedar, it has that fresh, fresh wood.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:24
what what are your associations with this Cedar smell? I think of like, you know, an old hope chest or something like that, like a Cedar lined hope chest, or maybe have you ever had Cedar hangars in your closet before that?
John Puma: 18:37
Hmm. No, for me it’s I don’t know exactly why, but for some reason I always associate. The smell of Cedar with the winter, with
Timothy Sullivan: 18:46
John Puma: 18:48
And so when I smell this, I’m just like, ah, Christmas, you know, it’s
Timothy Sullivan: 18:52
John Puma: 18:53
uh, so it’s, it’s kind of appropriate, right?
Timothy Sullivan: 18:57
yeah. I think of, of all those different things in the house growing where I lived growing up that had Cedar in them, Cedar lined boxes. And, uh, it’s just a very, you know, smell is so connected to memory. It’s a very distinct aroma. There’s not a lot of variation to this neuroma.
John Puma: 19:18
no, it is, it is quite specific.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:21
Yeah. Now, is it pleasant for you? The thought of like drinking this Woody smell? What do you think?
John Puma: 19:27
It’s kind of like it’s relaxing to me. This aroma is very relaxing to me. And that’s, that’s, that’s the sense of memory that you were just mentioning, right? Like I think it’s soothing.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:37
Yeah. Like when you go to the spa and they have like eucalyptus smell like this kind of, it does have that vibe to it where it’s, it’s very relaxing and homey
John Puma: 19:47
And I imagine for you having grown up around it, homey would definitely be something that pops into your head.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:53
but I think having. Uh, Cedar hope chest or Cedar hangars in your closet. That’s very much like a grandma thing to do. I think so.
John Puma: 20:01
I don’t think my grandma had that either.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:03
not every, not every, um, everybody maybe grew up with that, but, uh, it’s a very strong, uh, smell aroma memory that I have.
John Puma: 20:14
So let’s give it a taste. Tim. I think this tastes like sake that might have been aged in cedar barrels. It is not a lot surprises here. It is doing, it’s doing the thing it’s doing exactly what it sets out to do.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:32
John Puma: 20:33
Um, and I think that’s, that’s a good thing. They wanna make a sake that invokes that older style that Asia Asian, the Cedar casks, and Yeah. I totally get it. It’s a pleasant and the S the taste of the Cedars kind of nice.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:52
Yeah, it very much is warming in that sense. If you think of like spiced drinks or, you know, that kind of holiday. Warming spices kind of come across on the palate, along with the, with the wood. And it definitely gives a warming impression when you sip on it and this is a sake we could also warm up quite well, I
John Puma: 21:17
say that this would be a really nice thing, especially in the holidays. I think I’m a warm up a little bit of this that seems like it’d be nice, not too warm or make it hot, but just kind of just kind of tip it a little bit towards warm. I think. it’s going to be really pleasant. It’s going to kind of, you know, look outside and look at some snow while it’s happening while you’re sipping it. That might be nice.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:40
John Puma: 21:43
I’m going to double down a little bit here. I’m going to try something. Uh, and, and get the most Cedar out of my Cedar sake. So I have a, a wooden.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:55
John Puma: 21:57
Yes. I have a Cedar MAASU that I actually acquired in, in Japan.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:02
Okay. So explain for our listeners what a MAASU is for those who might not know.
John Puma: 22:07
so. in time, time, long ago, masu was a cup for measuring rice. And so one masu is one go that’s the measurement of, of this, a cup of rice. And. They are made out of Cedar and they were, Later on, they became utilized as sake drinking vessels. And to this day, a lot of places will still use the rectangular wooden or now more, more commonly plastic, a box. As part of the sake serving experience, sometimes they’ll put a cup in it and pour the cup porcelain they’ll pour sake into the cup and overflow into the masu. Uh, occasionally you’ll just have a masu of sake very rarely these days, I think. but this one I have here is actually made of Cedar. It smells very, very cedar-y
Timothy Sullivan: 23:08
and they’re square. They’re
John Puma: 23:10
Timothy Sullivan: 23:11
So how do you drink out of a square?
John Puma: 23:13
you drink out of the corner,
Timothy Sullivan: 23:15
John Puma: 23:17
Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I do. At
Timothy Sullivan: 23:19
John Puma: 23:20
I seen people successfully drink out of the side, but, I don’t, I don’t have that kind of skill. I don’t have that kind of dexterity.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:26
No, I, that that is a high wire act. I do not want to try.
John Puma: 23:30
So I’m going to pour a little bit of the sake into the Taru masu.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:38
Excellent. All right.
John Puma: 23:40
And if for some reason you thought the taru sake did not capture the aroma enough, let me tell you that, putting it back in its home, it really just, it doubles up because the cut by itself really has a pleasant, Cedar aroma to it. And then you put this in here and it’s just the two of them. Like it’s exponential, how much more Cedar aroma you get out of it. And it’s, that’s really, really nice. And then when I taste it, it’s just, it’s just really adding that much more. Cedar to the experience that, that, that sugi power is all over this, this tasting. Uh, and I do really think even more now when I have it this way, that this is something I’d want to warm up a touch and see what happens. And, and again, as you pointed out very. Uh, seasonable, seasonably appropriate. I think this was, this just makes me think of the, you know, the, the winter time and, and the holidays. It’s really, uh, it’s, it’s nice. And I, I think that having, I think I, if you want to try a taru sake, if you’re into the idea and you want that. By all means, try it in a glass also. But if you have access to a, to a wooden, masu try it once. It’s, it’s going to be a very interesting and uh, it’s going to bring a little bit more depth out of the sake. It’s gonna bring a little something special out of it.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:18
I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s a great way to experience taru is to drink it out of a fresh, uh, Japanese, Cedar MASU cup. It really is authentic. That’s an authentic way to enjoy taru for sure.
John Puma: 25:34
The F the, uh, the finish is actually a lot A lot cleaner for some reason, probably cause you’re, you’re just getting so much Cedar at the front that comparatively speaking, it drops off and it becomes this really light sake. Uh, but it’s nice. It’s really interesting. And you know, we’ve talked before about that. The, the, the vessel you drink out of will influence the sake a little bit, and this is a very specific vessel for a very specific sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:58
absolutely. And I wanted to mention one food pairing that goes with. I have one home run sure-fire food pairing to pair with taru.
John Puma: 26:12
Timothy Sullivan: 26:14
It is Cedar plank salmon. Have you ever had that?
John Puma: 26:20
I have not, but I really like salmon and S this sounds intriguing.
Timothy Sullivan: 26:26
Yes. So you take a. Plank of Cedar and you spritz it with water and then that goes onto a grill. And then you put the salmon onto the wood and the aromas from the wood, very gently infuse into the salmon. Cedar plank salmon is a, I think a pretty well known way to prepare salmon with a bit of a woodsy aroma to it. It’s delicious. Anyway, pairing that with pairing that with this sake is a home run. It is so good. And you just get this littlest hint of, of the Cedar when you’re eating the salmon. And then you sip on a dry taru sake like this one, it’s sh I’m doing a chef’s kiss right now.
John Puma: 27:13
Timothy Sullivan: 27:16
Chef’s kiss emoji.
John Puma: 27:18
He really did it. Yes,
Timothy Sullivan: 27:20
Does that sound good to you?
John Puma: 27:21
so we do have some salmon in the, in the refrigerator and I’ve got. The majority of a bottle of taru sake in the house now. So this might be something we do next week and see what happens. I don’t know where I’m going to get the plank
Timothy Sullivan: 27:36
or the grill.
John Puma: 27:37
I mean, yeah. Have I have a stove and oven and I have a stove. I don’t know.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:42
I think this is more of an outdoor activity, the grill putting, putting the wood on the grill as an outdoor activity.
John Puma: 27:49
Ah, yeah, I think, uh, oh, well
Timothy Sullivan: 27:52
We’re city boys. Yeah.
John Puma: 27:53
are a city boys. Oh, well,
Timothy Sullivan: 27:56
This was a fun episode, was a little bit of history and a little bit of that history coming into the modern world and tasting a really interesting kind of sake.
John Puma: 28:07
Very much so and interesting, unusual, a little bit of. a, a bit of a niche sake. I think, and it’s a little fun. It’s I say it’s nice to have something that’s a little bit, a little bit outside of our typical comfort zone, Tim, your, your ending 2021, really hitting that, uh, that sake revolution resolution.
Timothy Sullivan: 28:31
Yes, this is definitely outside of my comfort zone. Really interesting and really good. And the shocker of all of this, who would have thought that the brewery making this most historical sake is from 1964. Just I can’t get over that.
John Puma: 28:50
You know, what’s old is new again
Timothy Sullivan: 28:52
John Puma: 28:55
and now old again.
Timothy Sullivan: 28:56
And now old again.
John Puma: 28:58
Timothy Sullivan: 28:59
All right. Well, I think that is a wrap for. Episode Taru and if you’re out there listening, if you’re out there listening and taru sake sounded exciting to you, seek it out and go get a bottle for yourself. We think you will enjoy this historical style of sake, John, fabulous to taste with you as always. And I want to thank our listeners as well for tuning in. We really do hope that you’re enjoying our show. Now, if you would like to show your support for Sake Revolution, one of the best ways to support us now would be to back us on Patreon. We have a whole community and we are a listener supported show. All the contributions we receive through Patreon go to the costs of producing, editing, and getting the show on the airwaves every week.
John Puma: 29:55
Yep. Be sure to. Check out our patreon page over at Patreon.com/SakeRevolution. If you would like to become a patron and if you would not like to become a patron, haha. You are supporting us anyway just by listening. Uh, we really do appreciate that. Get the word out, tell your friends, tell the family dog, tell the family, get them all subscribed, especially the dog. Uh, and then, uh, have them review it on. There are a podcast platform of choice. It really, really does make a huge difference about getting our show into new ears.
Timothy Sullivan: 30:31
And as always to learn more about any of the topics or sakes we talked about in today’s episode, and if you want to see a handcrafted Yoshino, Cedar sake barrel, be sure to visit our website. SakeRevolution.com and you can see all the pictures and all the show notes.
John Puma: 30:49
and if you have sake questions or show ideas, Hey, this was a listener request, um, that you need answered. We want to hear from you. Please send them our way. The email address is [email protected]. So until next time, remember to raise your Cedar MASU, keep drinking sake and Kanpai