Episode 118 Show Notes

Episode 118. This week, John and Timothy combat the boredom of late summer by exploring another extreme sake. If you’ve ever put a squeeze of lemon in your iced tea, you know acidity can transform a beverage. But what role does acidity play in sake? and how do we taste it? By exploring a sake that is much higher in acid, we hope to uncover this and more. Wine is well known to have more overall acidity than sake, so let’s see if this high acid brew brings some wine-like qualities to the tasting. We sure hope we will never sour on tastings higher acid sakes. #SakeRevolution

Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 02:16 Extreme Sake: High Acidity

Today’s sake is from Hiraizumi Honpo

Established in 1847, Hiraizumi Honpo is the oldest brewery in the Tohoku region of Japan, and the third oldest in the country. They are well known for their yamahai style sakes.

Hiraizumi Honpo

Skip to: 9:51 Sake Tasting : Sake Tasting: Hiraizumi Maruhi No. 77 Yamahai Junmai

Sake Tasting: Hiraizumi Maruhi No. 77 Yamahai Junmai

Brewery: Hiraizumi Honpo
Classification: Junmai, Yamahai
Alcohol: 15.5%
Prefecture: Akita
Seimaibuai: 60%
Rice Type: Miyamanishiki
Acidity: 4.2
Brand: Hiraizumi
SMV: -22.0
Yeast: Kyokai 77

View on UrbanSake.com:

Purchase this sake:

Skip to: 28:10 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

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Episode 118 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello, everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s very first sake podcast and I am one of your intrepid hosts. My name is John Puma from the Sake Notes. Uh, also the guy who started the internet sake discord. And on this show, I am the guy who is not the sake, educator and sake samurai, that would be this guy.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:48
And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake educator and I’m also. Of the Urban Sake website and every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Hey John, how you doing?

John Puma: 1:07
I I’m doing great. How about you? You’re having a good day.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:11
Doing good. Maybe a little bored over here.

John Puma: 1:15
Oh, why? Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:17
I need a little excitement in my life.

John Puma: 1:19
you need a little excitement in your life. Do you need, do you need things to get a little extreme, perhaps extreme? Do you like extreme?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:29
uh, oh, I know what that means.

John Puma: 1:31
my goodness. It is time for the continuation of our actually kind of popular as far as I’ve been able to tell, uh, extreme sake series.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:44
I don’t want those boring middle of the road sakes. I want something extreme.

John Puma: 1:48
Mm. I just think you want excuse to use that font on our, uh, graphics for this episode.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:55
Oh my gosh, we’ve done a lot of extremes. We had wild yeast. We had high alcohol. We had, uh, super robust milling rates, whole bunch of different things.

John Puma: 2:07
yeah. and today we have yet another one, Tim, will you please let the wonderful people at home know where we are venturing today?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:16
We are going to be attacking high acid sake.

John Puma: 2:21
Acid. So, uh, for everybody at home then, uh, acid was, um, started in the 1980s by DJs in Chicago.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:32
No, that’s

John Puma: 2:34
oh, wait that’s acid that’s acid house. This is just acid sake. Uh,

Timothy Sullivan: 2:37
no, John, this is high acid sake. Yes.

John Puma: 2:42
sounds like it’s gonna have some, uh, some interesting flavors to it. Some interesting bite to it. you know, like acidity, when I think of acidity, I can know it sometimes when I have it, but, but I don’t think I’ve ever had a sake that was extreme in its, in its acidity. What should I expect from this? And I guess the better question is like, when I’m having something that’s really acidic, what are the words I’m gonna use to express that?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:11

John Puma: 3:11
do I experience acidity?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:13
Yeah, that’s a great question. And a lot of people who are new to tasting sake or tasting wine are like, what is acidity? What do I look for? And there’s a type of acid we’re all really familiar with, which is citric acid. So if you bite into a lemon, everyone’s done that, right. If you go

John Puma: 3:29
What’s a lemon, Tim what’s

Timothy Sullivan: 3:34
That joke was a lemon. John,

John Puma: 3:36
oh man.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:37

John Puma: 3:39
I tried.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:40
If you go on Instagram, there’s all these videos of parents giving their little baby, their first lemon and the little baby bites into it. And then they like, they frown anyway. Everyone’s had the experience of biting into a lime or a lemon and getting that pure shot of citric acid. Now, while we don’t have high citric acid in sake, that experience of acidity can be your guidepost to kind of orient you as to what you can expect or what to look for when you’re thinking about acidity. So citric acid, I think is one of the most common universal types of acidity that we’re aware of in, in beverage.

John Puma: 4:18
All right. Okay. So, so you mentioned citric acid, but at the fact that you were specific tells me there’s other ones out there. So what else am I looking for?

Timothy Sullivan: 4:28
there are other types of acid. So in wine, the two most common types of acid, and these are acid that are present in the fruit itself. We have tartaric acid and malic acid, and these are gonna come from the fruit and express themselves in a higher acidity profile in the wine. And in general, wine has a higher acid profile in its natural state. Then sake is going to.

John Puma: 4:57
that makes sense.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:57
Yeah, in sake, we have more lactic and succinic acids. So these are different types of acids. And, lactic acid is something that’s added to sake and succinic acid can be produced by the yeast. So these types of acids are different acids. They have different flavor profiles and they express themselves in a little bit of a softer, softer way.

John Puma: 5:22
Yes. so in the sake, where is it coming?

Timothy Sullivan: 5:27
So when we make sake, we say, oh, this is a high acid sake, a low acid sake, but where does this acid actually come from? What is,

John Puma: 5:35
I probably should have led with that.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:37
uh, so the acidity comes primarily from the yeast. So the yeast is making alcohol, eating sugar, making alcohol, but it also gives off different acids. And about 70% of the acids that are produced in a sake are gonna happen during the main mash, the main fermentation during the shubo or the yeast starter. There’s lactic acid that is either added or grows naturally, depending on what type of sake you’re making. And that’s another way that we can get acid into sake, but primarily the acids are gonna come from the yeast during the main fermentation.

John Puma: 6:19
Hmm. Okay. All right then.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:21
And when you, taste a sake, we talked about, you know, biting into a lemon and citrus acid and all that stuff. How do we experience acidity specifically in sake? So how do you know you’re tasting a high acid sake? Right?

John Puma: 6:35

Timothy Sullivan: 6:37
In my experience, some high acid sakes have a little bit of a sour taste to them. So when you, when you experience sourness and that, that sounds like, Ooh, horrible, who would want sour sake, but there are some sakes that have a little bit of a sour. Oh, there’s sour beer fans out there. Right.

John Puma: 6:52

Timothy Sullivan: 6:53
Are you a sour beer?

John Puma: 6:55
no, I’m, I’m, I’m not,

Timothy Sullivan: 6:57
me neither

John Puma: 6:58
no, no, no, but you know, there’s, I, I’ve definitely experienced sakes that had that like, um, almost that like sour Skittles kind of. Flavor to them.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:07
Garbage pale kids.

John Puma: 7:09
And that I imagine probably some acidity going on there.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:12
yes. Yes. And I also find that acidity in certain levels can add to the sense of dryness. So dryness often comes from the alcohol level, but. Acidity can also add a, a impression of drying out the sake, making, balancing out sweetness and being a counterpoint to the sugars in the sake and lending an overall impression of dryness to sake. So those are two ways that I think we can know that we’re experiencing potentially higher acidity in a sake.

John Puma: 7:44
So we know, a bit about where it’s coming from and what to expect when it’s happening, but, uh, apart from, I guess, tasting it, how do we measuring this acidity?

Timothy Sullivan: 7:52
well, what have I always said about acidity when we talk about the stats every week, right? And it’s. What is our usual range for acidity

John Puma: 8:02
Uh, it’s usually, I wanna say that, like, everything we’ve tasted has been like between like one and two. not a lot. I think we had a couple that were slightly over two and we, we regarded those as being kind to high,

Timothy Sullivan: 8:15
of high,

John Puma: 8:15
not extreme though, but kind to high.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:17
Yeah. So there’s this scale that we use to measure acidity. And as we’ve said on the pod before the range is usually between 1.0 and 2.0. But the question for today is 1.0 2.0, of what, like, what is this percentage?

John Puma: 8:33
that’s an excellent, that’s an excellent point.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:35
Yeah. So what we’re doing is we’re measuring how acidic the sake is. And we do this by a process known as titration, where we take a alkaline solution. So the opposite of acidic, we take an alkaline solution. We’re using sodium hydroxide in a liquid form and we drip it. Into 10 milliliters of a given sake. And we measure the number of milliliters of this alkaline solution. How much dripping does it take to neutralize the sake so that it’s perfectly balanced between acid and alkaline.

John Puma: 9:14

Timothy Sullivan: 9:14
And the number of milliliters of liquid is what we’re talking. So 1.7 milliliters of liquid is a 1.7 acidity. So that number is a measurement of the solution needed to neutralize the sample of sake. So you have to add more alkaline solution to neutralize a high acid sake versus less. So that’s really what that number means a little bit more detail than most people probably need, but

John Puma: 9:45
but Hey, if you’re you’re coming for our extreme sake series, you’re coming here for the details

Timothy Sullivan: 9:50
going there.

John Puma: 9:51
so this has been a fun bit of theory, but I think that one of the most interesting things that we do on the show is putting theory into practice. And so we are gonna be tasting a high acidity sake and giving you guys our thoughts on it. Today’s sake is Hiraizumi Maruhi number 77. and that. 77 refers to the, kyokai 77 yeast. We’ll we’ll get back to that in a moment. The brewery here is a Hiraizumi Honpo and they are located in Akita Prefecture and they are established in, I, I don’t know if this is a record for us, Tim, but, but it certainly got my attention. 1487.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:39
Yes, this is the oldest sake brewery in the Northern Tohoku region of Japan and the third oldest in the country of Japan and the

John Puma: 10:52
14 87. I can’t wrap my head around that.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:56
current president is the 26th generation. Can you imagine?

John Puma: 11:03
oh my goodness. look, that’s like. Like, you know, we, we often talk about like, oh, like the United States didn’t even exist. Blah, blah, blah. The colonies didn’t even exist in 1487. It’s that old

Timothy Sullivan: 11:20

John Puma: 11:21
that’s phenomenally interesting. That’s so, so weird. So.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:26
almost unbelievable,

John Puma: 11:27
Almost unbelievable. Yes. But going back into that, the sake rice here is, uh, miyamanishiki, uh, which is a, a, a local Akita rice. also they’re using, uh, Akita sake komachi milled down to 60%. This is a Yamahai Junmai so it’s a Yamahai it’s also a funky, a little bit different. Um, Tim, do you wanna quickly give our listeners a stroll down memory lane about Yamahai.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:58
Yamahai is one of the alternate fermentation starter or yeast starter methods. And it is the method where we allow lactic acid to build up. Naturally, we talked about lactic acid being in sake and this fermentation starter or shubo step is where lactic acid gets introduced. Yamahai allows lactic asset to build up naturally versus adding it in manually. So that can add some complexity. And some depth of flavor to sake, and we’re gonna see how that translates here. When we taste it.

John Puma: 12:35
yes, we will Yes, we will. one thing I did catch my eye here is the sake meter value on this one. this is also a little bit extreme, Tim, a little bit extreme, not quite extreme as the last time we. Extreme sake meter value. But, for everybody at home, we do talk about this every week. The sake meter value is that range of dry, too sweet based on the density of the sake and how it compares to water, usually manifesting in dryness or sweetness with the negative numbers representing sweetness minus 22, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:10
Yeah, this is, this is not extreme. Our extreme

John Puma: 13:14
it’s not,

Timothy Sullivan: 13:15
SMV was minus 80 something. So

John Puma: 13:17
these are, these are rookie numbers. This is what you’re telling me.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:21
this whipper snapper doesn’t know. Sweet. No, I’m just kidding. No, it’s a super interesting number 20 minus 22 is way lower than you’re gonna see normally, but we’re actually here for another extreme stat.

John Puma: 13:32
Oh yes, we are. Uh, now we mentioned earlier that in the past, we’ve talked about, Acidity typically clocking in between like, you know, one and two and, and seeing a few in the, you know, 2.3, 2.5 and seeing that and being like, wow, that’s a lot. Not today. It’s not today. it is 4.2%.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:58
Yes. So that’s like three times the acidity we normally get at least, and it’s extreme.

John Puma: 14:06

Timothy Sullivan: 14:07
So the, the key factor in this is the kyokai 77 yeast. And this is a type of yeast that was created to produce. malic acid and that is not normally present in large quantities in sake. So we’re gonna look for this different profile of acidity, how it might compare to wine flavors we might know, and how it might differ from our usual sake acid profiles. And, you know, the acidity does not live in a vacuum like any of the other stats. So we have to think about how the alcohol level, the SMV. and any other, like here, we have a Yamahai as an example. So all of these are going to intermingle and give us our flavor profile. So we have to keep all of these things in the back of our mind, but this 4.2 acidity is really, really high and, super interested to see how this differs from sake and how it might be like wine or how it differs from wine and might be more sake like than we think.

John Puma: 15:14
Ooh. Excellent. Excellent. Exciting. I like that. We’re getting something unusual, having something a little bit different. I’m mildly terrified the acidity number, but that’s what we’re here for. terror now. um, alright, so, uh, Tim, do you have your bottle handy?

Timothy Sullivan: 15:32
I do. Let’s get it open and get it in the glass.

John Puma: 15:35
Sure. All right. We’ve got it in the glass and I’m seeing a bit of yellowing.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:49
Yeah. I mean, this, to me in the glass, this looks like a, could be a white wine, like a Chardonnay, right. Has like a, a light light. Yellowish color to, it looks like it, it could pass for white wine and drag. Maybe, you know, RuPaul’s drag race.

John Puma: 16:07
I, I gotcha. Um, uh, I gotcha. I gotcha. So, um, yeah, it is, it does have that little bit of a white line to it. There’s no, it’s it is. Clear in the way that there’s no, um, sediment in there that

Timothy Sullivan: 16:18
Yep. Transparent. So no sediment, but the coloration is. Straw colored white wine colored. Yeah.

John Puma: 16:26
All right. Now the aroma.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:30

John Puma: 16:32

Timothy Sullivan: 16:33
Hmm. There’s complexity there, but it’s nuanced. There’s for me, there’s a little bit of earthiness in there and some fruitiness as well, but more like citrus fruits, not the tropical fruits that we sometimes get with sake, but there’s a lot of, for me, it smells like there’s a lot of layers going on. Like it’s not a simple one note aroma there’s complexity and lot to dig into. If you, if you study this aroma, what do you, what do you think?

John Puma: 17:07
I agree wholeheartedly. Uh, I know that we came here for extreme acidity, but the first thing I’m noticing when I take in the aroma is oh, Yamahai

Timothy Sullivan: 17:18
oh, really? Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. And I’m also smelling something like a little bit of that lactic character. Like when we talk about lactic aromas in sake, we think about, uh, milk, butter, cream, yogurt, those types of things. But again, when I said a little bit of earthiness, a little bit of citrus, a little bit of lactic, these things are, all muted. Layered together. So it takes a little bit of study and a little bit of discernment to like, kind of pick these things out. So it’s worth with a sake like this. I think it’s really worthwhile to have it in a wine glass. Give it a swirl, take your time with it and let it open up a little bit and keep, keep revisiting the aroma. You can really be

John Puma: 18:04
mean, I think that’s something that people listening right now are gonna realize is that we’ve gone back and and re sniff this like five or six times. And we’re getting more, every time we do it, because there’s just a lot to be, um, a lot to be understood here.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:22
Okay. Ready to go in for a sip?

John Puma: 18:24
All right.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:27
Oh my goodness. Wow.

John Puma: 18:31
It’s still going.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:34
All right. The acidity here is not shy.

John Puma: 18:38

Timothy Sullivan: 18:39
so John, remember I talked about biting into a lemon and do you know where you sense the acidity kind of on the side of your tongue? And it feels like your mouth’s watering a little bit. I’m getting that sensation sipping on this sake as well. Again, it’s not pure citric acid, like you would get from biting a lemon, but it’s an easy way to envision, like what we’re experiencing now, this high acid. Sharp it’s clean and it has a little bit of a mouthwatering effect. Like you get from sipping on a really bright white wine. Don’t you think?

John Puma: 19:15
It’s so interesting because in my mind, like when I sip on this, you’re presented with that acidity it’s that citrus bite, almost like you’re mentioning with lemons and such, and just starts going up and up and up and up and up and up and just, you think it’s gonna balance out it doesn’t quite, and then it starts to balance out and then fade. And it’s so interesting. I’ve never had something quite that, intense with regard to that particular note.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:45
Now, let me ask you this. We, we paused for a moment when we talked about this SMV minus 22, the residual sugar. Now is this reading as a super sweet cotton candy bomb to you?

John Puma: 19:58

Timothy Sullivan: 19:59
No, right? It’s not.

John Puma: 20:01
not even close. Wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:03
A, and the reason for that is the balance that the acidity brings to that sweetness. So that’s, again, we talk about balance so much. It it’s all about bringing nuance to all the different members of the orchestra, getting everyone to play in harmony and this acidity. And I think the sweetness rate, if you read SMV minus 22, you would think, oh, this is gonna be, cotton candy, super sweet. But the acidity they’ve brought in here balances that out.

John Puma: 20:34

Timothy Sullivan: 20:36
And for me, the super unique thing is that they’ve achieved this acidity through finding this yeast number 77, this kyokai yeast number 77, that produces higher levels of malic acid. So it’s a type of acidity. That’s not usually present in high levels in sake. So it’s a whole different flavor profile.

John Puma: 20:58
Yeah. And I think that your comment about it balancing out that extreme SMV, it’s close to extreme, close to extreme SMV,

Timothy Sullivan: 21:09
Flirting with extreme

John Puma: 21:10
flirting with. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I think that that really, stands out here. It’s it’s it is totally. Totally the case, because I think if you had something that was just minus 22, it’s gonna be so sweet. But, something that you’ve pointed out many times on the show before and we mentioned earlier today as well, acidity often presents as dryness.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:35

John Puma: 21:36
Hell. It’s, you know, you need this extreme acidity to counteract that extreme sweetness or that flirting with extreme sweetness. Uh, and that’s why we still have all this acidity left over. They don’t balance that completely. We have more, more acidity, acidity wins, but it does lead to a very interesting and unique flavor. I don’t think I’ve ever tasted anything quite like this.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:55
Yeah, I did a little research online and I, I found something from the brewery as to why they made this sake. They have a whole series of these numbered sakes. So this is their number 77, so they experiment with different types of yeast. But the purpose of this one in particular was trying to make Yamahai sake. Have a wider appeal and make it easier to understand so that more people can enjoy it. So from the brewery’s point of view, they’re trying to introduce Yamahai to more people. And the way that they conceived it with this sake was to bring up that acidity. And create a new taste sensation for what Yamahai is, cuz people have an impression of what Yamahai sake is usually more earthy and robust, and this is very different from a traditional Yamahai. And I think they’re really should be commended for experimenting with a different acidity.

John Puma: 22:58
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mentioned when we were going through the aromas, some of the things I got on the nose were features that I expect from Yamahai a little bit. So it kind of got me thinking Yamahai a little bit. And then when you sip on it, You don’t really think Yamahai you’re you’re you’re really focused on this interesting acidity play.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:18
Yeah. in my life outside of Sake Revolution studios, I’ve been experimenting a little bit. We’ve had these extreme sakes, experimenting a little bit with trying to learn more about wine and ordering. If I go to a non-Japanese restaurant where there’s no sake within a hundred miles, you know, I will order a wine and I’ve been experimenting with white wines and as a sake person, It’s always the acidity that hits me first, when I drink white wine, palate is accustomed and calibrated to the softer acidity of sake. So sipping on this makes me feel I’m like having one of my wine experiments.

John Puma: 23:59
Mm. So this definitely does remind you of wine. And when you’re doing that, what kind of, what kind of wine is it making you, uh, think of?

Timothy Sullivan: 24:07
This makes me think of Chardonnay

John Puma: 24:11
okay. I can, I can get that.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:13
Chardonnay has sometimes has that buttery lactic character to it. And I get just a hint of lactic character here. It doesn’t taste like a buttery Chardonnay, but just, it has whispers of that around the edges. And it doesn’t have the crispness of like, uh, uh, a brighter, cleaner, white wine. So I’m what, what do you think, what do you think, do you think.

John Puma: 24:36
Well, um, when I think of high acidity in white wines for me and I, I, I don’t have a tremendous amount of experience with white wine, but one thing I do think of when I think of that is, uh, like rieslings,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:48

John Puma: 24:49
Yeah. Some of those will have that, that big, bright acidity to it. And some of the notes in this do bring me back to some of, you know, some of my recently experiences, and rieslings can be really fun to drink, I think. And this is a, this is definitely, I think have somebody, you have somebody who’s really into high acidity wines and you, you pour this for them. They, they would find this. Very comfortable place to onboard towards sake, perhaps

Timothy Sullivan: 25:14
And rieslings are known for being sweeter. Right? I mean, they, they can have sweetness to

John Puma: 25:20
they, they can have sweetness, but for some reason I always end up getting ones that are sweetness is accompanied by a nice, some bite acidity.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:27
Yeah. But I think the sweet, the SMV minus 22 that could play in that, that riesling category. That’s, that’s a great comparison as well.

John Puma: 25:37
there might be some wine people at home listening right now that are like rolling their eyes and like, just like punching their desks. Like, no, there’s wrong.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:44
could be definitely are

John Puma: 25:47
and if there are we’re sorry. We’re we’re honestly we’re yes, we’re very, we apologize. We are not, uh, you are not wine experts.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:56

John Puma: 25:57
This is all, uh, no, this is, this is all based on a very small sample set of our understanding of one.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:06
yes. Wild conjecture and uh, half half truths.

John Puma: 26:11
exactly. Exactly. Uh,

Timothy Sullivan: 26:15
Well, this, this is a great sake. Super interesting. I, when we do these extreme sakes, I’m always nervous that I’m gonna hate it because it’s too extreme in some direction, but this is totally drinkable, really enjoyable.

John Puma: 26:29
Yeah. Uh, this is nice. And I, think this falls into, uh, this falls into crazy style. So I do need to float this by the, uh, the wife at some point later tonight and see what she thinks of it, because I think she’s gonna like it. Uh, I, you know, it is, it does have that, that interesting bite to it. That is a little more, a little more exciting.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:49
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. It it’s CRA you know, crazy style for me is like way off the deep end. This feels like it’s just sake from a different point of view. It’s so interesting. You know, it’s not that crazy. Like if you’re a wine lover, you’d be totally at home with this.

John Puma: 27:08

Timothy Sullivan: 27:09
So it’s crazy from the sake lover’s point of view, but if you’re a wine lover, I think you could just slip into this, like your your favorite pair of jeans.

John Puma: 27:21

Timothy Sullivan: 27:21
Well, John, we survived another close encounter with extreme sake.

John Puma: 27:26
Yeah. And, and I gotta say Tim, like, as you pointed out a little bit earlier, it’s been good to us. Like this series has been, has been good to us. It’s we’ve gotten to experience some really, uh, tasty stuff. I don’t think I’ve had, uh, had a bad experience yet.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:43
Yeah. It’s really fun. Exploring the outer edges of what sake is we come into contact with those experimental brewers who are trying new things and reaching for. What sake can be. And that’s a really exciting thing.

John Puma: 27:59

Timothy Sullivan: 28:00
Yeah. Super interesting. So watch this space, higher acid sakes are gonna be more and more a thing I think.

John Puma: 28:08
Uh, yes, definitely.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:10
All right. Well, John. It was so good to taste with you. Can’t wait for our next extreme adventure. I wanna thank all of our listeners for tuning in and especially I wanna say hello and thank you to all of our patrons. We love our community at Patreon. And if you would like to learn more about supporting sake revolution via Patreon, visit us at patreon.com/SakeRevolution.

John Puma: 28:37
and if Patreon is not your thing, Fear not, there are many ways to support Sake Revolution, uh, listen to the show. Ah, you’re doing that already. Very nice of you much appreciated, but, uh, also you can go ahead and leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice and really helps get the word out to all the people out there who haven’t heard about us yet. Um, so yeah. Thank you very much for listening on that note, Tim. Uh, thanks for the kind words earlier. And I’m always looking forward to our next extreme adventure. So please grab a glass. Remember to keep drinking sake and Kanpai.