Episode 65 Show Notes

Episode 65. This week’s episode involves absolutely no kidding around. For our first brand deep dive, we look at the interesting and innovative Heiwa Shuzo in Wakayama Prefecture. Heiwa means “peace” and this brewery name was adopted in 1952 as a nod to the hopes of peace and prosperity in the post war period. In 2008, the “Kid” brand was released and as a brand, it speaks to the movement of young and up-and-coming brewers making a new style of sake in a new way. The president of Heiwa Shuzo, Mr. Norimasa Yamamoto has even written a book on his new and collaborative ideas on brewing and producing sake as a team. The Kid sakes project a super easy-drinking and fruity flavor profile. Imagine the sake you’d want to sip from a wine glass on the couch after a long day at work. Join us as we explore and taste the delicious innovation of the Kid brand from Heiwa Shuzo.

Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 04:20 Brewery Profile: Heiwa Shuzo
About Heiwa Shuzo

Heiwa Shuzo Brewery Building
Photo © Heiwa Shuzo

From Sake Suki LLC:
Located in a valley in Kainan City, Wakayama, lies what was once originally built as a temple, but now stands as Heiwa Shuzo, renamed after the end of the Second World War (Heiwa translates to “peace” or “harmony”). While the brewery has been making sake for 4 generations, the KID brand itself is quite young, only having started production about 10+ years ago. The average age of a kurabito (sake brewery worker) at KID is 29 years, and it is collectively the KID goal to create the standard for next generation Sake in Japan.

Norimasa Yamamoto (center) President of Heiwa Shuzo with the brewery workers
Photo © Sake Suki LLC

Find Heiwa Shuzo on Social Media
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heiwashuzou/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/heiwashuzou
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/heiwashuzou
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyqIP4XdgKYcaL3WIJBbLjQ
Website: https://www.heiwashuzou.co.jp/
UrbanSake: https://www.urbansake.com/sake-guide/heiwa-shuzo-wakayama/

A look inside Heiwa Shuzo:

Skip to: 15:16 Sake Introductions
let’s explore the stats for each sake we’ll be tasting.

Skip to: 18:57 Sake Tasting : KID Hiyaoroshi Junmai Ginjo

KID Hiyaoroshi Junmai Ginjo

Brewery: Heiwa Shuzo (Wakayama)
Classification: Hiyaoroshi, Junmai Ginjo
Acidity: 1.7
Alcohol: 15.0%
Prefecture: Wakayama
Seimaibuai: 50%, 55%
SMV: +1.5
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku
Brand: KID (紀土)
Importer: Sake Suki, LLC
Yeast: 10, 14, 901, k1801

View on UrbanSake.com: KID Hiyaoroshi Junmai Ginjo

Skip to: 21:58:57 Sake Tasting : KID Junmai

KID Junmai

Brewery: Heiwa Shuzo (Wakayama)
Classification: Junmai
Acidity: 1.5
Alcohol: 15.0%
Prefecture: Wakayama
Seimaibuai: 60%
SMV: +4.0
Rice Type: Ippanmai, Yamadanishiki
Brand: KID (紀土)
Importer: Sake Suki, LLC
Sake Name English: Kid
Yeast: Kyokai 701

View on UrbanSake.com: KID Junmai

Purchase on TippsySake.com: KID Junmai
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.

Skip to: 33:36 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

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Episode 65 Transcript

John Puma: 0:22
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast. And I’m your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. You may also know me as the administrator over at the friendly internet sake Discord, and also I’m the head moderator at r/sake over on Reddit.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:43
And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake. And I am also the founder of the Urban Sake website and every week John and I will be tasting and chatting about all things, sake and doing our very best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 1:02
So what’s in store for us today. What do you have?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:05
Well, how about we explore a particular brand today? Now there’s a sake I know you and I both love, we both happen to have it on hand. And I thought, how about we do a little exploration of a particular brand? How does that sound?

John Puma: 1:20
I like that. I think I don’t, I don’t think we’ve done.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:24

John Puma: 1:25
specific brand deep dives before. This is nice.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:29
Yeah, I like it. I mean, we’ve talked about brands with brewers, but this’ll just be kind of our take on things.

John Puma: 1:34
I like it. I like it a lot, so for our inaugural brand specific episode, I like what you picked. I have to say, as you mentioned, we’re both big fans of this sake. And do you want to reveal to the listeners at home? What would you.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:50
Yeah. Well, I would not kid around about it. Important topic. Like our first brand

John Puma: 1:56

Timothy Sullivan: 1:58
groan, but we have picked an, up and coming really well-known brand called kid K I D. And it is from Heiwa Shuzo and they’re located in Kainan city in Wakayama prefecture and Wakayama. I almost kind of it’s on the main island of Japan and it’s kind of south of Osaka. So that whole Osaka Kyoto region, if you just go south from there towards the Pacific ocean, you’re going to hit Wakayama and they’re located, um, in that area. And you’re a big fan of kid. I know that.

John Puma: 2:37
I am, but before we go any further, I need to know something.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:40

John Puma: 2:41
Have you been to Heiwa Shuzo?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:44
You know, this is a brewery that I have not visited before dunk dunk dark.

John Puma: 2:50
oh my God. We found one. Well, that’s good. Uh, well at least where we’re exploring this together in a way, uh, I guess have you been to Wakayama?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:00
You know, I have not.

John Puma: 3:02
Whoa tim!

Timothy Sullivan: 3:05

John Puma: 3:06
wow. All right. Um, but, but yes, as you mentioned, uh, yeah, big fan, uh, this is a sake that I look forward to having needs to be a sake. I used to be sad about not being able to get in the states. And I used to look forward to having their stuff. Every time I went to Japan and then lo and behold, just a few short years ago, it started coming over to the U S and I actually think it’s one of very few brands where all of the seasonal varieties are imported in the United States. And that’s very exciting for me because I like playing around with that and seeing what the different seasons tastes like from a given brand. And so that makes me very happy.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:45
Yeah. And I would say this is, would you call this a cult sake or…

John Puma: 3:51
it’s definitely a popular brand has kind of got like a buzz. I mean, you know, they’ve been around for a little while now, so maybe then now they’re more of a known quantity, but you know, they definitely went through their culty phase for sure. And definitely had their, their big buzz phase, uh, where everybody was like, wow, if you tried Kid, it’s fantastic.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:10
Now kid is kind of a funny, unusual name. Isn’t it.

John Puma: 4:15
It is it, um, I hope there is a good story behind it though.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:19
Well, we did a little research and we found out that kid is a brand name that the brewery came up with and released for the first time in 2008. We’ll talk a little bit more about the background of the brewery in a minute, but this brand named kid that they released in 2008 is one of, we talked a few times on the show about these contractions, you know, taking two words and kind of contracting them together. So it comes from combining Kishu. K I S H U Kishu. That’s the name of the area with Fudo, which means environment or typography. So If you put key shoe who though you get KI-DO, if you cram them together kido so the Japanese pronunciation will be say, kid is actually KIDO in, in Japanese And from what we’ve read, the inspiration for kid was actually to give the brand the feeling of like young youthful and, a new generation coming up. And, uh, they’ve definitely done that. I mean, making a new brand is. Not all that common that we get, brand new brand names and sake. So I thought it was cool that they picked an easy name that people in the west can pronounce and understand and remember easily. Right.

John Puma: 5:48
very easily.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:49
Yes. So the brewery is also really interesting. The brewery again is called heiwa shuzo The brewery itself began in 1928. Which is also really young, most breweries are much older than that. Yeah. I think that’s a relatively young brewery. they were forced to close operation during the second world war. And when they reopened in the post-war period, this was in 1952, they renamed their brewery heiwa, which peace. So this was a nod to hoping for prosperity in the post-war period, and I th I think that’s a really beautiful, nod to recovering from the war and moving on to make something so beautiful.

John Puma: 6:41
Okay. Yeah. I’m glad you jumped on that because it’ll be my next question is how long has been around, but, uh, I’m glad that you, uh, you, you Johnny on the spot with that information much. Appreciate it.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:55
Yeah. I think things really start to get interesting though, with this brewery, when the current president took over back in 2005. He really shook things up and changed the workflow. And back then they used to make bulk futsushu, or table sake, and he wanted to change things around and make sake that was for a new generation. And, that was, uh, such a shift at the brewery. I read somewhere that they lost some of their long-term older employees, because it was just too much of a change and change of direction for the sake and the working style and all that stuff. And, uh, so they ended up bringing in really young, Kurabito, really young brewery workers who brought, this kid mentality to the brewery.

John Puma: 7:52
And so these are the kids,

Timothy Sullivan: 7:53
These are the kids.

John Puma: 7:55
One could draw certain parallels between this shift and then this brand launching and becoming a really big deal with things that happened at Tenzan brewery, which maybe we could do one of these episodes one day on them. Uh, and yeah, and the release of this Shichida brand, which is, again, very, very popular sake, that is relatively young as a brand, even though the brewery has been around for, for many years.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:21
Yeah, absolutely. I think that Brewer’s innovating, maybe not giving up their previous style, like Tenzan still has a very classic brand as well, but creating something new. That’s one of the thing that shichida and kid are doing really well. So I think you’re right on point there really.

John Puma: 8:43
Yeah, I think that as you pointed out, it’s important to maintain. You kind of what got you to the dance, so to speak and, keeping that available and saying, but we’re also going to do this new thing. And then you start out with this new thing and that gets its own fan base. And also when you’re making something new and you’re, you’re branding it and you’re, putting it out there, it has a fresh start, so you get to kind of get to have people see it with fresh eyes and they don’t necessarily go like, oh, how does this compare to this, to what they used to do? Because you’re not thinking of the brewery as much. You’re thinking about this new brand and it’s supposed to be different. It’s a really nice way to do that without, without putting off anybody who was a fan of what you were doing before.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:23
yep, absolutely. So the president who made. All these sweeping changes at heiwa shuzo, His name is Norimasa Yamamoto. So Mr. Yamamoto, he’s the fourth generation of his family to run the brewery. And one of the biggest changes that he made when he came back and started running the show is he changed the structure of the organization. so? yeah,

John Puma: 9:54
so? How changing the structure?

Timothy Sullivan: 9:57
well, sake breweries are very well known for having a top down hierarchical work structure where the toji is the top. And he has the last word on all decisions and he just tells you what to do and you run and go do it, no questions.

John Puma: 10:15
Yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:16
And. In my reading, what I, I discovered about Heiwa Shuzo and Mr. Yamamoto is that he took a much more modern, collaborative approach to doing the sake production. Now there’s a total of 17 employees at the brewery. Those include salespeople and administrative people. And, what he had people do is be in charge of a few tanks of sake from beginning to end. So the brewers would do every task and they would own two or three batches of sake. And then at the end of the season, they would taste and they would know, Okay. this the sakes came out great. You’re doing a good job. And they could learn where people needed improvement and all the brewers. You know, masters of the whole process and it was, they would collaborate and there wasn’t like one person ordering everyone around and telling everybody what to do. There is still a toji of course, but they work much more collaboratively than is usual for this very traditional work environment.

John Puma: 11:24
Wow. Yeah, that is very unusual. And, it’s surprising, not just for a sake brewery in general, but for a Japanese business in general. Yeah. That’s that is, very interesting, I had no idea that yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:37
yeah. And Mr. Yamamoto also wrote a book

John Puma: 11:41

Timothy Sullivan: 11:41
called. Koga Tatsu so Shiki, which means “an organization that stands out for individuality”. So he actually wrote a book on his, he wrote a book on his like ideas for updating management style. And you’re absolutely right. That it’s not just sake breweries that have that top-down mentality, many, many Japanese businesses do.

John Puma: 12:04
that’s going to ruffle some feathers, I think. And,

Timothy Sullivan: 12:06
don’t you think.

John Puma: 12:08
I would imagine, uh, not that I don’t work for a Japanese company or anything like that, but I imagine that that sort of thing would definitely, definitely ruffle a few feathers.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:16
Yeah. And I visited their website, their Japanese website, and I did the Google translate thing. And there’s actually a link on their homepage about joining our organization out of college. So there’s like they’re recruiting young

John Puma: 12:29
Oh, wow. That’s very interesting. And, and I think that, yeah, it’s a great, not just for like, oh, you know, young people should be involved. sake should be courting young people You bring young minds in to make sake that can, be enjoyed by younger people perhaps.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:50
I think there will be always be that tension though, between the traditional way and innovation. Whether it comes to using machines or not, or, hierarchy structure in a brewery or how to, how to work together, all these things. And I think it’s one of the things that makes the sake industry. Really interesting as the growth and the change that’s happening right now is really, really super interesting.

John Puma: 13:16
Yeah. Yeah. and necessary. I think that, uh, I think that sake is in a place where it needs to, to make adjustments. Um, and I think that that’ll happen. I think sake has made adjustments in the past that led it to where it is today and it’ll make adjustments in the future. That will take it to the next level.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:32
Yeah. So before we taste, I really want to know you’ve told me before that you’re a fan of kid. What is it about the sake that you like and that has attracted you in the past?

John Puma: 13:45
I like and, you’re very well aware of this. I like easy drinking, light, smooth sake that I can just, you know, lose track of time, I’m sitting on the couch, maybe I’m sipping kind of lay down and sip, it’s very difficult, but I’m sitting and sipping and you know, just One sip moves into the next, and you’re just really, really just like enjoying it and just letting it go. And that’s the kind of sake that I have definitely have a place in my heart for. And they do that so well, so very well, I think that it’s just really nice, easy drinking. You know, there’s a, there’s a place in my heart for complex sake as well. I know a lot of people really need some depth and, and, you know, and, and, uh, complexity in their sake. And I don’t begrudge them. but sometimes I just want to sip on something that’s very light and easy drinking, a little bit of fruit. Hmm. Wonderful. And I’m right there. It’s comforting. It’s comfort sake. Is that, is that a good way to put it?

Timothy Sullivan: 14:48
so smooth and easy drinking is the name of the game.

John Puma: 14:51
So that’s, that’s the name of the game?

Timothy Sullivan: 14:53
All right. Well now, after all that talk about how easy drinking and let the good times roll it is let’s let the good times roll. And, uh,

John Puma: 15:01
See what the kids are.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:02
so let’s see what you beat me to it.

John Puma: 15:05
Ah, y’all are not the only one with the bad dad jokes on his podcast. I think that qualifies the dad joke. Right.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:14
Totally. Absolutely. All right. So let’s do our traditional introductions and reveal what we are tasting.

John Puma: 15:23
yes. Uh, let’s talk about yours first.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:26
Sure. So I am drinking the kid. Junmai. This is a, I guess, one of their entry level sakes, it’s still really premium, really delicious, but this is one of their more affordable sakes that they’ve brought over. It’s made with two different rices first gohyakumangoku milled to 50%. And then the label says “Ippanmai” 60% and that is a reference to just table sake in general. So they don’t really reveal the, the second rice. But I would imagine that might be used for the Koji and the ippanmai or table sake. It might be used for the kakemai or the starch component. I’m just guessing there. And then the SMV is plus four and the acidity is 1.5 and our alcohol is right. at 15%.

John Puma: 16:14
very nice, very nice.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:16
Yeah. And, how about you?

John Puma: 16:17
well, I have. Secured bottle from, from last year actually of the kid, Hiyaoroshi. Now I am very big Hiyaoroshi fan and I came across a store here in New York that had, a bunch of the varietals is still in stock. And, uh, for our listeners at home who might’ve forgotten that Hiyaoroshi is the autumn seasonal sake, It’s brewed at the same time at the beginning of the season with everything else, but they hold it back and then release it in the autumn where it is once pasteurized. And for me, the, SMV is 1.5. So quite a bit different from yours. You have the plus four the acidity is a 1.7. You’ve got it at 1.5. So we’re still in the neighborhood. This is a Junmai Ginjo yours is the Junmai. And for this one, it’s all Gohyakumangoku and the kojimai is polished at 50%. And the kakemai the, the starch component is actually polished a little bit less at 55%.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:25
Yeah, that’s unusual They did it in my sake and yours. And it’s not common that the rice used for the Koji and the rice used for the starch component is different, but they’ve seems to be a thing with this brewery.

John Puma: 17:38
Yeah. And speaking of different, the yeast. Or I should say yeasts there are four of them.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:46

John Puma: 17:47
Um, and I don’t know if they introduce them to different stages or if they just come. Block in there. I don’t know exactly, in which you know how they introduce all four of them to the mix, but yeah, four different yeasts on this one. None of them are the one that’s in yours. Interestingly enough.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:06
Yep. So my sake, the kid Junmai uses, uh, 7 0 1

John Puma: 18:11
And mine uses 1801, 901, 14 and 10.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:20

John Puma: 18:20
They don’t want to leave anybody out.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:24
Yeah. All right. Well, um, enough talking,

John Puma: 18:28
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no more talk. We now drink.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:32
so you’ve tasted yours before in a previous season. Is that right?

John Puma: 18:37
I know I’ve tasted this seasons, but, but last year.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:40
Last year. Okay. So it’s the same batch, but it’s just aged an additional year.

John Puma: 18:46
In her, you know, in a refrigerate

Timothy Sullivan: 18:47
Inner fridgerator. All right. Well, okay. Well you got to go first.

John Puma: 18:51
Oh, all right then. Well, I thought you’d never ask, uh, I also want to say big fan of the label. On the kid brand. I think that it’s super nice. It does, it has the, Roman characters, on there, embossed and then the Kanji, for them right on top of that really, really nice, great design. All right. So I have poured my hiyaoroshi. And this has a very mellow, very light aroma, and that goes in line with this brand. It’s always going to be light, easy drinking stuff. In this case, the aroma, you know, very light trace amounts of fruit it’s there, but it’s barely there. It’s very, very inviting. Hmm. Oh, wow. Okay. The flavor we’ve got on the palate a little bit more of that fruit I was talking about, but a little more tropical. So a little bit like a little bit of pineapple action, very, very subdued. I know when people think pineapple think acidity, think of the thing. It. But the, the idea of pineapple, not the actual experience of getting a pineapple. Now this is very low acidity on this sake, and then a nice little bit of a dry finish. Um, and. I think we’ve talked about this in the past with other sakes that sometimes a dry finish when, when the sake isn’t cloying, which is, is not here, has you looking forward to sip number two 4, 5, 6.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:27

John Puma: 20:28
And that’s something that I find that this brand does really well is they prep you for, they prep you for your next, uh, your next indulgence. Um, me sip a little more, some more thoughts.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:43
How does it compare to last year? Is it similar,

John Puma: 20:49
It’s a little bit more, it’s actually got a little bit more depth than it used to,

Timothy Sullivan: 20:53
Oh, I guess

John Puma: 20:54
which is not shocking, but it’s, it’s in no way. It doesn’t taste old. Um, it just tastes a little bit more mature, you know? Um, you know, it’s, uh, not as light as, uh, as I remember it.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:08
Yeah. I notice a little bit more of a concentrated flavor when sake ages it can concentrate a bit more and, um, be A little bit more intense versus airy. and maybe that’s a bit of what you’re picking up on that one year of, refrigerated aging. Maybe it concentrated the flavor a little bit?.

John Puma: 21:29
A little bit I do remember, um, uh, actually looking at my notes now I had it’s light fruity, you know, but it was, it was, so it was a bit lighter than this and I’m remembering that specifically. So yeah, it did concentrate a bit more. It is still balanced very nicely.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:43
Oh, I think I can see John’s tasting notes from last year from here, I think. Oh, it’s just a string of heart emojis. I’ll look at that.

John Puma: 21:51
Yeah, come on. We’ll do a little more in hard emojis. Uh, but yeah, no, it’s, it’s really, really good.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:58
Okay. now again I have the, Heiwa Shuzo Kid Junmai I’m going to open this up and get it in the glass.

John Puma: 22:13

Timothy Sullivan: 22:18
All right now I have had this before, but I didn’t take notes the last time I tried it. Hmm. Okay. So the aroma here on my Junmai is fruity.

John Puma: 22:31
A lot of it.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:32
No big shocker, but it has an aroma of fruitiness

John Puma: 22:35

Timothy Sullivan: 22:37
Mellon and Hubba Bubba bubblegum.

John Puma: 22:42

Timothy Sullivan: 22:43
it’s got a little bit of that sweet bubblegum aroma, which I really like.

John Puma: 22:50
I am a big fan as well.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:51
Hmm. But very mellon-y and pineapple too. Oh my God. Yeah, and I’m giving it a few swirls and it feels like it’s opening up a little bit and expressing a little more. Hmm. Very fruity, very, very much a tropical fruit aroma. And if you were to say I had a Junmai sake from gohaykumangoku and table rice, rice, isn’t the aroma that you would think you’d be getting.

John Puma: 23:23
No, no. I think one thing I really like about the sake is I think it kind of punches above its weight for it to a certain extent, I think people looking for a traditional Junmai with that rice forward action are going to be a little disappointed in this, but I think somebody is looking for, something that maybe presents a little bit like a Ginjo, but is positioned in price a little bit like a Junmai. And that’s a pleasant surprise, isn’t it?

Timothy Sullivan: 23:49
Yeah, but I have to say, this is not going to be for everybody. I think because the fruitiness and the tropical fruits are really, pronounced

John Puma: 24:00
so you were, you were saying it’s aggressively fruity, that’s it?

Timothy Sullivan: 24:05
I’m terrorized by the fruitiness now.

John Puma: 24:08
I aggressively fruity. I don’t mean like it’s like attacking you. I’m just saying,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:11
not aggressively, it’s not aggressively fruity, but I was just thinking, I know a lot of people who like that dry Junmai taste and if they saw Gohyakumangoku and they said, oh, uh, you know, whatever, whatever. Um, if they saw this and they were not expecting the fruity profile, then. They would be surprised. So I think it’s worthwhile to be aware that if you are going to order the kid sake you’re in for a light, fruity profile, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me give mine a taste now.

John Puma: 24:50
Yes, please.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:51
Hmm. Oh, wow. That’s really good. So it’s very smooth. It is not overtly ricey. Uh, it’s got a fruity characteristic on the palate. It’s almost a little bit tart. I mean, my, my acidity is lower than yours and there’s this brightness on the finish that, uh, make sense. Think of tartness, but it is not too sweet at all really good balance and, um, fruity, easy drinking. This makes me think of like, you were describing before relaxing with a glass of sake. And a lot of people might pour a glass of white wine after work and relax on the couch. And this is exactly that type of feeling I’m getting from the sake. Easy to drink super sippable, not complicated too much and not too ricey or too dry and more on the fruity side than the umami side and just easy drinking. Right.

John Puma: 25:55
Yeah. And I think it’s hard to do that. Lightness and smoothness without dipping too far into dryness is it’s a balancing act, I think dry is like right around the corner sometimes, I think they do it really well and they maintain the presence of the fruit, but it’s not overwhelming. It’s there. Um, and it’s, and it’s kind of guiding that smooth experience. I really, that’s something I really enjoy about it. And also, uh, yours is now available in a one cup the Junmai, Yeah,

Timothy Sullivan: 26:25
for sake on the go.

John Puma: 26:27
on the, you know, I don’t know where we’re going, but, but, you can totally get a one cup of kid Junmai now. One of my tasting notes from this from last year and I tasted it on, um, on August 27th. So it is almost a year,

Timothy Sullivan: 26:44

John Puma: 26:45
is that I did find last year that if I let it linger in my mouth, I would start to get some banana. unfortunately, I’m not able to replicate that this year. I’m a little bummed out by that. Um, but I am enjoying, I am enjoying the added depth quality a little bit, but I mean, that’s just what happens when you have a sake. That, that has more time to mature as a, you know, an, a full year.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:07
Yeah. And sakes are living things they’re evolving and changing. And that’s one of the charms of sake, I really think. Um, but it was a fun experiment. Yeah.

John Puma: 27:18
Oh, absolutely. I know. I’m, like I said earlier, I’m very glad I bought this. This is wonderful. This one is a little bit sweeter. I want to say than it was last year. Uh, and then again at that’s just that flavor concentration you were talking about earlier, you know, they should. They should maybe hold back some of this. It’s very interesting. I like it a lot.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:38

John Puma: 27:39

Timothy Sullivan: 27:39
yeah. I’m not a big fan of aging sake long-term at home, but laying something sturdy down for one year in, in your refrigerator. sake fridge or, you know, someplace where you’re going to get a nice constant temperature. That’s, that’s fun to do.

John Puma: 27:54
Yeah, and, nine out of 10 times, if it’s something that’s stable, And you’re taking good care of it or whatever party parties taking good care of it. It’s going to be fine. It might even be great. It might even be better than you remember.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:05
Yeah, well, the bottle of kid Junmai that I have says that this sake will open the door for sake beginners and that it’s recommended pairing with rich foods such as cheese.

John Puma: 28:22
Really? What do you think about that?

Timothy Sullivan: 28:24
I think that that could work. if I had a cheese board in front of me, I think I’d be pretty happy

John Puma: 28:30
You bet. You bet you can work

Timothy Sullivan: 28:31
this. Oh yeah.

John Puma: 28:33
Remember, fans at home, John is completely ignorant about all things, cheese related, uh, since he does not eat cheese. So when somebody says something to pairs with cheese, I just kind take their word for it.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:45
This is what John hears. When I start talking about cheese, want, want, want, want wa

John Puma: 28:49
Yes, exactly. I couldn’t tell you how the pairs were cheese, but I will tell you it’s delicious to, sit on the couch and sip.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:58

John Puma: 28:59
You mentioned earlier about this brewery that they’re, you know, they’re into. Kind of new ideas and that’s like what the name kind of means young people doing things.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:10

John Puma: 29:10
Um, something that just recently happened that they released, which is very unique. The gentleman who heads up the beer, department, Takagi san, he made a sake that is brewed with beer yeast and, hops.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:30

John Puma: 29:31
And it actually is sold in beer bottles and As a new Yorker, you may be aware of Brooklyn Kura’s, Occidental series, where they do, Citra hot pass on the sake. And it, it gives it a lot of a grapefruit, taste and aroma. And also, it turns it pink, uh, same effect here. So this is, very grapefruity, and also quite pink, but it’s very interesting and something brand new because it’s not sake strictly speaking. It’s not beer, it’s not liquor. It’s, uh, it’s its own brand new thing. And that’s, I think it’s really super interesting that these guys are doing this and just being like, we’re gonna try new stuff and we’re going to, uh, get out there and. Experiment, they’ve got this, this great brand, that’s gaining a lot of popularity and they’re, you know, using their platform to change things up, to spice it up a little bit.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:25
Hmm. Do you think that things going on overseas, like people like Brooklyn Kura doing these unusual hybrids, do you think that is having a reverse influence on things like this in Japan?

John Puma: 30:37
I mean, it could be, whenever I am speaking to somebody at a Japanese brewery, one of the first things they asked me is if I’m familiar with Brooklyn, Kura, and when they find out from New York, that’s always the question. And a lot of the time when I, when I answered that, yes, um, you know, we are familiar, they will talk about that sake. And they’ll say like, oh, this was super interesting. I had it, it was very weird and very interesting, but we could never do this because it’s not sake because it has another ingredient. And, you know, it feels like in the case of Heiwa kid, they were like, Then we just will make it not sake okay, so yeah, there could be a reverse influence or it could be, some other, uh, grassroots going on who knows, you know, it could be, they could have arrived at the same way that, that Brooklyn Kura did, I don’t know if they have ever actually been to the brewery before, but yeah, I think it’s super interesting when that sort of thing happened.

Timothy Sullivan: 31:32
yeah. I’m all for this kind of dialogue. I think it’s great. If what brewers are doing outside of Japan can have some influence and, help that innovation going on in Japan. We were talking about before letting things evolve and grow, and, you don’t want to be hemmed in by too many rules and regulations.

John Puma: 31:54
And you know, and here we are, again, with the young people, new ideas. And trying to make sake a, interesting to, to a new generation. Let’s mix it with beer, you know, that’s a, and put it out there and if it, if it does great for them, that’s great. If it doesn’t. They tried. And some people, you know, will find its audience. Some people will enjoy it. Most of the buzz I’ve seen on the internet has been very, very positive. People are very excited about this.

Timothy Sullivan: 32:20
Yeah, well, I’ll be excited to see Heiwa Shuzo does in the future. Yeah. And if we ever do an episode from Japan, let’s swing by. Wakayama and invite ourselves over.

John Puma: 32:33
We have to, we should probably call first. I don’t know if we can just show up. I don’t know if they’re into that. If they are that’s even better. That’s um, but I think we’ve covered everything we’ll talk about in our first ever brewery focused episode. Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 32:49
Absolutely. This was, this was fun. Taking a little bit of a deeper dive into one particular brand and neither of us have been there. And, uh, this is, uh,

John Puma: 33:00
the rare feat of a brewery that tim has not been to.

Timothy Sullivan: 33:05
Well, I think that Heiwa Shuzo has a really interesting future ahead. I’m super excited to see what might be coming over next from them. We have it, the chance to go to Japan together, I would love to swing by Wakayama and visit this brewery. It sounds absolutely fascinating. And I can’t wait to see what they’re up to and what we’ll get from them in the future.

John Puma: 33:29
Yeah, I’m pretty stoked myself.

Timothy Sullivan: 33:31
Okay. Wonderful. Well, that’s going on the bucket list. All right. Well, I want to thank our listeners so much for tuning in. This was a lot of fun exploring the world of Heiwa Shuzo and kid. We really do hope that you’re enjoying our show. Now, if you would like to show your support for sake revolution, one way that you can really help us out would be to back us on patreon. We have two different levels of support that you could help us out with. The first one is $5 a month. And for that, you can join our monthly live zoom, sake, happy hour. It happens the first Wednesday of every month, you can join us live and sip with us, ask us questions and we can’t wait to meet you.

John Puma: 34:14
Oh, so Tim, uh, that reminds me, we sit the sakes that are left over, so we can’t finish these right now. We have to save the rest of these bottles for our happy hour

Timothy Sullivan: 34:26
That’ll happen.

John Puma: 34:29
uh, Hey, last time there was a challenge to see if I can. Did I see if I can keep

Timothy Sullivan: 34:34
You saved this.

John Puma: 34:35
the feet now, the Phoenix I saved like half the bottle, sir.

Timothy Sullivan: 34:38
I’m just kidding. All right. and the second tier is our $3 a month. Tier we can let you know in advance, give you some inside Intel and let you know which sakes will be sipping on two weeks in advance. If you’d like to get them for yourself and sip along with us, when the episode comes out.

John Puma: 34:57
And, you know, what is also a great way to support us. It’s still leaving a review over at apple podcasts or your podcast platform of choice. If you happen to not be an iPhone user. Remember when you subscribe. The episodes will pop up on your device of choice every week, as we put them out. We don’t want you to miss episodes. You don’t want to miss episodes. This guarantees you won’t.

Timothy Sullivan: 35:21
And as always to learn more about it, any of the topics or any of the sakes or any of the brands we talked about in today’s episode, be sure to visit our website, SakeRevolution.com, And you can check out all the detailed show notes.

John Puma: 35:34
And for all of your burning sake questions we want to hear from you. Please reach out to us. The email address as always is [email protected]. So until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake and kanpai!!!!