[00:00:00] John Puma: Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast. I am your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes, also administrator at the Internet Sake Discord your and my favorite place to have a drink with friends on the internet.

[00:00:42] Timothy Sullivan: And I am your host Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai, a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

[00:00:59] John Puma: Hi, Tim, how you

[00:01:00] Timothy Sullivan: I’m doing good. How are you doing?

[00:01:03] John Puma: I’m doing alright. I’m doing right. It’s it’s uh, yeah, we’re getting through the summer. It’s a little bit warm out still. Um, I kind of like that. It hasn’t been like, it’s been it’s in warm and muggy, but it hasn’t been like searing hot. We haven’t really had those terrible,

[00:01:16] Timothy Sullivan: Oh my God. Those are the

[00:01:16] John Puma: high 90 days yet.

[00:01:19] Timothy Sullivan: worst.

[00:01:20] John Puma: They are, they are. It’s like, that’s the, the downside of the New York summer. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s not as bad as the south summer or the DC summer or the Tokyo summer, but it is, uh, New York has its own its own sadness. Everything’s concrete just kind of absorbs heat.

[00:01:37] Timothy Sullivan: Yes.

[00:01:39] John Puma: what are we discussing this week on the show? do we have a guest this week again? Okay.

[00:01:46] Timothy Sullivan: to say about that. no guests and nothing extreme.

[00:01:47] John Puma: Oh, wow. I’ll gonna be my next question. Beat me to it. Excellent. Excellent. So no guest nothing extreme. I’m fresh out of ideas. What do we have?

[00:01:55] Timothy Sullivan: Well, we’re gonna take another dive into a much beloved brand in Japan. So it’s gonna be one of our branded episodes and we’re going to zero in on a fabulous brand out of Okayama Prefecture known as Kamikokoro.

[00:02:11] John Puma: Ah, yes, that is a, a very interesting brand for us to feature especially considering that it’s one that as far as I’m aware, has had been absent from the U.S. For a little while and is now making a nice big comeback. Mm-hmm

[00:02:26] Timothy Sullivan: Yes. I look back into my ancient cave writing blog posts back from 2007, 2008, and I actually met, the president of the Kami Koro brewery back in 2008 and wrote a little blog post back then. And the product that I love from them so much actually did go off the market. So you’re absolutely right. Yes.

[00:02:49] John Puma: so let me get this straight. You were a big fan of the product. You sat down, you, you spoke to the, the man who makes it. Made a blog post about it, and then he promptly took it off the market.

[00:03:00] Timothy Sullivan: Wait a minute. Where is this going? Well, that is technically what happened. I don’t know if there’s a causal relationship there but, um,

[00:03:10] John Puma: I’m not, I wasn’t saying there was, I’m just saying.

[00:03:14] Timothy Sullivan: Well, I also lobbied to get this product back on the market and it is back in the States. So that’s there’s, there’s a redemption arc here.

[00:03:25] John Puma: Tim take it the way Tim Giveth

[00:03:29] Timothy Sullivan: So this, this sake again is from Okayama Prefecture. And. I don’t know if you know what Okayama is especially famous for, but there’s something that they grow there

[00:03:41] John Puma: oh,

[00:03:41] Timothy Sullivan: has outsized fame. What is it? Puma.

[00:03:44] John Puma: Uh, well, I wanna say that, um, dedicated listeners will know, and remember a time we spoke very fondly about Okayama Prefecture. And that was when we talked about Omachi rice.

[00:03:57] Timothy Sullivan: yes. Yes. An argument could be made that Omachi rice is the famous, product that has grown in there, but there’s, there’s a fruit that is famous as well.

[00:04:08] John Puma: Oh, damn. well, we were talking about sake and so I kind of went straight for it. Um, uh, honestly, I am not sure. What else did they make over in Okayama.

[00:04:21] Timothy Sullivan: well, the most famous fruit from Okayama is of course peaches.

[00:04:27] John Puma: Peaches

[00:04:29] John Puma: Oh, are you, are you a big peach guy?

[00:04:30] Timothy Sullivan: I mean, peaches are wonderful, but Okayama is especially famous for high end, rare white peaches. So there’s, there’s a type of white peach. It’s called Yume hakuto.

[00:04:48] John Puma: Yume Hakuto

[00:04:50] Timothy Sullivan: Yes. It’s like a dream peach.

[00:04:54] John Puma: I like that translation better than white peach.

[00:04:56] Timothy Sullivan: Yes. And they are covered by a small bag. So each peach, while it’s on the tree is wrapped in a little bag by hand to protect it from the elements while it’s growing. And it’s one of the sweetest and, um, most flavorful peaches you can get. So they’re not cheap obviously, but they are super famous in Japan and super famous in Okayama. And there’s actually a fairytale that comes from this region. Momotaro. Have you ever heard of Momotaro, the Japanese legend or fairytale?

[00:05:30] John Puma: I am. I am unfamiliar with Momotaro

[00:05:34] Timothy Sullivan: I think if you stopped any Japanese person on the street and asked them what’s Momotaro, it’s like asking us like what’s Cinderella or Snow White or something like that. It’s like super famous fairytale and I’ll give you the super condensed version. So there’s an old woman washing her laundry in a river and a giant peach floats down the river and she brings it home and she and her husband are childless and they cut open the peach and there’s a baby boy inside the peach. So the peach kind of gives birth to a baby boy. And then the baby boy grows up and grows really strong and powerful. And then ogers invade the village and they steal the village fortune and money and gold, and they run away to orge island. And then the, the peach boy whose name is Momotaro, which means Momo means peach and taro means firstborn son. So Momotaro teams up with a group of animals. I think it’s a dog, a monkey and a pheasant, and they go to the island and they defeat the ogres. And then they come back with the the riches of the village and redeem themselves. And that’s the end.

[00:06:49] John Puma: All right. Okay.

[00:06:51] Timothy Sullivan: So, anyway, this is a famous fairytale in Japan and it is connected to Okayama Prefecture and it has major peach involvement too.

[00:07:01] John Puma: Okay. So I’m glad we’re talking about peaches.

[00:07:04] Timothy Sullivan: This is, this is just the peach background. so this story is famous and, uh, I think that peaches have been grown in Okayama without babies in them, but peaches have been grown in Okayama since 1875 and they were actually brought to Okayama from China and then what they did, of course. They began to grow peaches and they wanted to perfect the peach. And then that’s when they came up with all these varieties and they developed and brought about this really famous yume Hakuto variety. So that’s a little bit of the background. And. This , ties into our sake as well. Wouldn’t you know,

[00:07:50] John Puma: interesting. Cool. So, Kamikokoro. Um, I wanna say that when I was getting into sake, uh, this might have been during the hiatus period.

[00:08:04] Timothy Sullivan: you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm,

[00:08:04] John Puma: So for me, it was a sake that, I, I didn’t get to experience until the second until the second coming,

[00:08:12] Timothy Sullivan: And when was that? Like, when do you remember coming across this brand for the first time? Okay.

[00:08:17] John Puma: I’m pretty sure it was like, during like lockdown era, like during, during 2020 was when, uh, people were gonna get excited about it. And I was like, oh, I need. I need to, to get my hands on this. And I remember I mentioned it to you and you were like, oh, you have to get this. It’s amazing. And I was like, oh, okay. so so I did order it. And I, I remember being like, wow, this is fantastic. Where has it been all my life? And at some point I was going through old photos, , from, , from early on in my, in, in my sake, drinking times. And I found a picture of, A bottle of this. So I definitely had it years and years ago, and I just didn’t realize it. Cause I knew very little and I was not tracking my experiences that well back then. Um, but it was, it’s so wonderful and I’m so glad it’s back because to me, at least their stuff is a little bit unique. Doesn’t really taste like many other sakes.

[00:09:11] Timothy Sullivan: They definitely take a unique approach. So Kamikokoro again is the brand name and the brewery name. Do you know what it means? Kamikokoro.

[00:09:20] John Puma: actually. No, no, no. And does it relate to peaches?

[00:09:25] Timothy Sullivan: Kami is the Japanese word for God or God’s spirit, I guess. So come are the gods that inhabit all the things in Japan. So, it’s often translated as God and kokoro is the word for heart or spirits So on the website, Kamikokoro they say it’s translated as the joy of a pure heart and spirit.

[00:09:52] John Puma: Hmm.

[00:09:53] Timothy Sullivan: Some people say the heart of God. So there’s different, there’s different translations and a lot of nuance in these words, but it basically means the heart of God,

[00:10:03] John Puma: ooh.

[00:10:04] Timothy Sullivan: no pressure, no pressure. So I mentioned earlier that back in 2007, 2008, I got to meet the president of Kamikokoro. This is before there was a little hiatus with their products and that person is Nobuhiko Fujii. He’s the fifth generation president and this brewery. Only been around since 1913. So they had their 100th anniversary back in 2014.

[00:10:38] John Puma: So this is something I’m never gonna stop being amused by. It’s like, oh, only 1913

[00:10:46] Timothy Sullivan: Their, their own website describes them as a relatively young micro sake brewery.

[00:10:55] John Puma: I love it. That’s awesome.

[00:10:55] Timothy Sullivan: yeah. So. Mr. Fujii is the fifth generation president. And I remember him being so kind and so happy that someone outside of Japan like this foreign sake guy was really excited about his sake. And, it was just this sake. We’re gonna taste today. Just really stuck with me. And I’m so happy. It’s back in the country.

[00:11:21] John Puma: Great. That’s fantastic.

[00:11:23] Timothy Sullivan: Okay. So we’ve talked about Okayama Prefecture and their hashtag peach and the delicious white peaches that Yume Hakuto the Momotaro peach boy legend, and a little bit about the brand. So maybe we should. Transition over to talk about the specific sake that you and I are both so excited to taste today.

[00:11:50] John Puma: Yes. Yes. so that sake, this is the Kamikokoro, uh, Tokagen, Junmai Ginjo Shiboritate Nama Genshu. So it’s a

[00:12:02] Timothy Sullivan: That’s a mouthful.

[00:12:03] John Puma: It is. It is. It is. Um, again, this is from Kamikokoro Shuzo, who’s what we’re talking about today. Uh, the alcohol percentage is 16.5, so it touch above average, uh, acidity down at 1.4. Um, the rice is, uh, Akihikari, which I’m not overwhelmingly familiar with. Tim, do you have any, uh, any background

[00:12:26] Timothy Sullivan: Don’t know a lot about it, but I do know that this akihikari rice is from Okayama.

[00:12:31] John Puma: Mm. Wonderful. Um, and that, uh, that akihikari is milled down to 58% of its original size. Um, this is not something we usually mention, but here it is definitely worth mentioning. I think the yeast is Okayama Hakuto peach yeast.

[00:12:52] John Puma: So yeah, we mentioned Tim. This is shiboritate nama genshu. Let’s uh, quickly go over that now. Nama means unpasteurized. So, Genshu we’ve talked about before many times. In fact, I think this very sake was featured on our episode about genshu, means that there’s no water at it’s undiluted. And then shiboritate, uh, shiboritate is a special kind of Nama , the freshest sake of the year, , the first batch. this is a seasonal sake that they’re, that they’re sending over to the us.

[00:13:30] Timothy Sullivan: That’s right. shiboritate is means freshly pressed sake. So it’s not aged or cellared in any way and it’s shipped directly after pressing. So it’s some of the freshest sake you can get.

[00:13:42] John Puma: Mm. the reason I said that was, I was assuming that they only produced in the wintertime. So this would be kind of a little bit on the limited side. Do we know if that’s the case here?

[00:13:50] Timothy Sullivan: Uh, this sake is definitely a seasonal sake only available during certain times of the year. The bottle that I have was bottled and shipped in November, 2021. So yeah, so this is a shipment from, you know, produced in the middle of the brewing season deep in the winter and then shipped and bottled right away. So, um, I’ve had mine in the fridge keeping it for a special occasion and that is today. And I’m so excited.

[00:14:29] John Puma: that’s a great occasion. I think, uh, I have been holding mine as well because, uh, I, we knew we were gonna be, uh, talking about this sake sometime soon and I am very excited. now for listeners at home, this sake does come in a UV protective bag. And we have elected to take that bag off, off mic, cuz it is extraordinarily loud, but I think it’s nice that they do that.

[00:15:03] Timothy Sullivan: Now full confession. I bought several bottles of this sake.

[00:15:08] John Puma: Um, you to Tim, how many bottles of this sake did you.

[00:15:12] Timothy Sullivan: several. I cornered the market for the east coast of this sake, cuz it’s it.

[00:15:19] John Puma: Are you reselling them? Is that

[00:15:20] Timothy Sullivan: It’s a long term favorite of mine. And this is the last bottle I have left from this, this 2021 brewing season. So it’s a bittersweet moment for me, Puma. Opening this up, but carpe sake car, car sake, and we’re gonna enjoy it.

[00:15:38] John Puma: Oh, yeah. All right. So we’ve got it in the glass

[00:15:41] Timothy Sullivan: Hmm.

[00:15:43] John Puma: and this, glass is on my desk and my head is, several inches away, talking into the microphone and the aroma is very clearly making its way into my nose, even though it’s quite a ways away from. It’s got a lot going on.

[00:16:04] Timothy Sullivan: Yes. Well, shiboritate Nama Genshus are known for being on the juicy side, fragrant fresh Zippy. This has been in the bottle and lagered for several months. I mean, I’ve had it in my fridge for a few months and it had the long trip from Japan, but even so it smells really bright, really fresh and really juicy. Now tell me you don’t smell peaches. I mean, I

[00:16:37] John Puma: I,

[00:16:38] Timothy Sullivan: you don’t smell peaches. I maybe I’m fooling myself, but I feel like I smell some peach action going on.

[00:16:47] John Puma: I don’t really smell peaches. I don’t peach action.

[00:16:49] Timothy Sullivan: It’s fruity. Right?

[00:16:50] John Puma: lovingly fruity. Very, very, just, just delicious aroma. Is that right? Word?

[00:16:58] Timothy Sullivan: sure. Let’s go for it. Well, when we talk about fruity smells in sake, what you and I talk about the most is like melon-y kinds of smells like melon, honeydew et cetera, but then you also have this, the stone fruit smells, plum peach. like that. And I think this has more of that stone fruit

[00:17:19] John Puma: Yeah. It leans a little bit more on that, on that almost very end of things, rather melon end of things, which I think totally goes what you’re saying about, uh, the stone fruit.

[00:17:29] Timothy Sullivan: There’s also like apple, apple, and pear and things like that.

[00:17:34] John Puma: Very lovely.

[00:17:36] Timothy Sullivan: Yeah, just lovely, really nice juicy perfumed aroma. For me, it leans a little bit more towards peach and a little bit of P maybe a hint of citrus as well. Like a little bit of lime. Hmm. Really lovely aroma. So

[00:17:56] John Puma: The lime, the lime is nice. I get that. Yeah. Uh, one thing I really like about this is that it is a big fruity sake and the aroma is not your typical, big fruity sake, aroma. I mean, it’s big and fruity, but it’s a different kind of big and fruity

[00:18:12] Timothy Sullivan: Right. Agreed. Agreed. All right, let’s give it a taste. Hmm.

[00:18:18] John Puma: Now I know why you bought several bottles of this.

[00:18:24] Timothy Sullivan: Now, you know why I cornered the market.

[00:18:26] John Puma: Yeah.

[00:18:28] Timothy Sullivan: So it’s really juicy. It’s rich.

[00:18:31] John Puma: It’s juicy. It’s rich. It’s got, um, it’s got, this is a rare thing that I don’t, uh, experience a lot when I sip sake, but I get a little bit of cherry and I love that. I love the hint of cherry on this. It’s

[00:18:53] Timothy Sullivan: Hmm. Yeah, like a dark cherry. There’s that rich again? It’s not that classic. Ginjo. Pineapple banana it’s a little bit richer and more concentrated in the past. We’ve talked about sakes, having a jammy quality to them, like a little bit of concentrated fruit, and that comes across a bit on this me. Yeah.

[00:19:17] John Puma: Yeah, I, I like that. I like, that’s a really, good way to put it. You’re you’re reading my mind in a way.

[00:19:24] Timothy Sullivan: Yeah. And you know, when we have Sharit against you often, when you hear genshu, you think 18, 19% alcohol, but this is only 16 and a half approximately. So the alcohol is not way off the charts. We, we guaranteed everyone at the beginning. This would not be an extreme episode, although we may be extremely fanboy-ing about this sake.

[00:19:47] John Puma: We are, you know, it’s funny, the, the branded episodes have traditionally been these like super, , cult favorite in Japan brands that have made it over to the us. And I don’t think that’s the case here at all. I think that this is a, almost like a cult brand in the US now and like the sake nerds are like super into kamikokoro these days, or at least. The ones who are in the fruity stuff are

[00:20:12] Timothy Sullivan: Yeah, this is a cult sake in my household.

[00:20:15] John Puma: yes.

[00:20:17] Timothy Sullivan: In the

[00:20:18] John Puma: I know a lot of people who are on the, , on , the internet sake, discord, this is a very big cult sake.

[00:20:25] Timothy Sullivan: that’s

[00:20:25] John Puma: everybody, there is a big fan of this, of this brand. Tim, uh, by the way, I forgot to ask you this earlier. Uh, cuz this is something that whenever we do a branded episode, I think it’s important to ask Tim Sullivan. Have you been to

[00:20:41] Timothy Sullivan: what. Insert jeopardy theme here. Uh, actually I have not had the pleasure to visit this brewery.

[00:20:50] John Puma: my goodness. This is like one of

[00:20:53] Timothy Sullivan: I know. I know I have never had the chance to visit Kami Kokoro, but if you’re listening, Fujii San I’m on my way coming to see you. next chance I get, no, I haven’t. I haven’t visited this brewery. I have been to okayama before, but I’ve not made it to this brewery, unfortunately. Yes.

[00:21:14] John Puma: Well, one of these days, one of these

[00:21:18] Timothy Sullivan: Yes, I do have one other quick story about Kamikokoro brewery. Now we, we did an episode on Kyoto a while back, and we talked about our favorite places to visit in Kyoto. And if people remember that episode, I talked about, my recommendation for sake lovers to go to matsuo, taisha shrine. And that was the shrine that’s kind of off the beaten path, but it’s dedicated to the God of sake and it’s a wonderfully tranquil place to visit. You’re not gonna find a lot of tourists there, but if you’re into sake, it’s a wonderful place to visit. I read that the second generation president of kamikokoro brewery, was so into sake brewing that he built a branch of Matsuo Taisha shrine in Oakayam. So there is a branch of the God of sake, shrine. In okayama by kamikokoro brewery. And that was built by the second generation president of this brewery. So when I go to Okayama to visit Mr. Fujii, I’m gonna stop by this shrine and pay my respects for sure. Yeah,

[00:22:34] John Puma: Wow. That’s uh,

[00:22:36] Timothy Sullivan: that’s

[00:22:36] John Puma: pretty good. That’s a pretty deep cut. Yeah, lot, lot, all ties in. We got the Genshu episode tie in today. We’ll talk about the Kyoto tie in. We talked about okayama tie in with Omachi.

[00:22:48] Timothy Sullivan: Yep. of episodes.

[00:22:51] John Puma: Kamikokoro is where it all comes together. Tim,

[00:22:54] Timothy Sullivan: so what are your thoughts on Kamikokoro Tokagen

[00:22:59] John Puma: I mean, this is, this is a, the sake is a blast to drink it. is so much fun. this is honestly, this would be a fantastic sake for somebody to have as their first sake.

[00:23:11] Timothy Sullivan: oh, agreed. Agreed.

[00:23:13] John Puma: Like, I, I would love to meet somebody and be like, Hey, this is, oh, you’ve never had sake before. Excuse me. Sir, or Madam, let me pour you some of this, um, because it’s just so fantastic. It’s so lovely. And I think it would appeal to a wide range.

[00:23:29] Timothy Sullivan: I completely agree with that. It is a seasonal sake, so it’s not available year round. So next time, the season rolls around, uh, you can visit our website and, , get some links as to where to buy.

[00:23:44] John Puma: And, uh, you know, run, don’t walk to your local shop that carries it, or your online sake vendor that’ll ship it to you because this is a sake you should experience. I rarely am like. I rarely make definitive people need to try a certain sake statements, but this is definitely one of them. This is gonna be the cult sake of the US, Tim

[00:24:06] Timothy Sullivan: I was just thinking that this it’s so nice. We can have our own, we can have our own nice things here. We don’t have to we can have our own cult sake in the US. And, uh, yeah, I’m all, I’m all about that. I love it.

[00:24:20] John Puma: Yeah. this sake is not going to last very long in my home. how long will the sake last now that’s been opened in your home? Tim

[00:24:28] Timothy Sullivan: Oh, that’s a good question. Not long if I actively pace myself maybe through the week, but it’s just so easy drinking and so refreshing. It

[00:24:41] John Puma: Yeah,

[00:24:41] Timothy Sullivan: won’t last long.

[00:24:42] John Puma: for listeners at home, , this is not normal. Tim consumption for sake. like, uh, Tim’s usually he has a remarkable self control. Um, he, he, you know, he it’ll, you know, he opens up something it’ll last a little while he doesn’t really go two nuts on it. this brand, particular sake. He, it is not safe around him.

[00:25:06] Timothy Sullivan: Yeah, this is, this is a brand that I think I, I tasted this sake at a very impressionable time in my sake career, and it made a big impression on me. So this is aha. 2.0, it’s interesting. I think that we talk to our guests often about aha moments, but aha. Moments are ongoing. You can have aha moments anytime.

[00:25:34] John Puma: This tasting this sake was an aha moment me. Uh, definitely.

[00:25:38] Timothy Sullivan: All right. Wow. Well, this was such a special branded episode. We both got to, investigate a little deeper, the background of one of our favorite unpasteurized sakes. Well, John, it was fabulous to get back to some branded episodes with you. Great to taste with you as always. I also want to thank our patrons. Uh, we have some wonderful patrons that have been supporting the show. If you’d like to learn more visit the Patreon website at Patreon.com/SakeRevolution. To learn more about supporting us on Patreon.

[00:26:13] John Puma: Uh, and if you’re looking for other ways to support us and you’re into t-shirts and stickers, we have swag on our, our website. You know, you can go over to, SakeRevolution.com/shop. And we’ve got a whole array of, uh, interesting shirts and other items that, we think you’re gonna look great. Makes me hope you,

[00:26:34] Timothy Sullivan: doesn’t love a sticker?

[00:26:35] John Puma: we think, I think I look pretty good in them. So, uh, you know, that’s us, the goal, . And, uh, yes. So if you are so inclined, we’ve got a lot of, uh, a lot of items over there and , ever increasing number of, uh, of fun things there, uh, for everybody at home. I mean, I do,

[00:26:53] John Puma: I mean, yeah, exactly. And you have good taste anyway. so again, thank you all for joining us. And if you would be so kind, please raise your glass. Hopefully you’ve got some Kamikokoro in it. Keep drinking sake and and Kanpai,