Season 1. Episode 19. Sometimes there are happy accidents. This week, John and Timothy discover they both brought the same sake to the Sake Revolution party… This could have been an embarrassing Faux Pas, but instead they resolve to make the best of things and dive deep into this week’s sake. We are talking Born “Gold” Junmai Daiginjo. It turns out, all that glitters IS gold when it comes to this delicious sake. It comes from the hard to pronounce “Katokichibee Shoten” sake brewery – but let’s just call it “Born”. Brewery President Mr. Kato is rightfully gung-ho about marketing and promoting his sakes and – case in point – beyond this weeks Born Gold, Kato-san also makes the famously elusive “Dreams Come True” Junmai Daiginjo sake, which they say, if you take a sip, you’ll dream of your future. Such dreams are a little out of our price range for now, so we’ll settle just for Gold. The taste of Born Gold is rich and perfumed with a hint of straw color that comes from one year of aging at freezing temperatures. In the end we were happy that great sake minds think alike!

Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 04:44 Sake Tasting Introductions

Skip to: 12:32 Sake Tasting: Born Gold Junmai Daiginjo

Brewery President Mr. Kato up on a chair at the 2011 NY Loves Japan Fundraiser in NYC.

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About Katokichibee Shoten:

Skip to: 24:05 Born Gold Junmmai Daiginjo – food pairing discussion

Born Gold Junmmai Daiginjo

Alcohol: 15.5%
Classification: Junmai Daiginjo
Prefecture: Fukui
Rice Type: Yamadanishiki
Seimaibuai: 50%
SMV: +1.0
Acidity: 1.5
Brewery: Katokichibee Shoten
Sake Name English: Gold
Importer: Mutual Trading
Brand: Born (梵)

View On UrbanSake.com

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Skip to: 30:24 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

EP 19 – live recording

John Puma: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. America’s first sake podcast. I am your host, John Puma. from TheSakeNotes.com. Also the administrator of the internet Sake Discord and an all around sake nerd… Hopefully just like you.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:00:35] And I’m your host Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai. sake educator as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And together, John and I we’ll be tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. So John, a little bird told me you were out on the town this week.

John Puma: [00:00:57] Yeah. You heard about that. Did you?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:01:00] It was in all the papers. No….

John Puma: [00:01:01] yeah.
Um, yeah, I found out that one of our favorite local sake bars here in New York. actually a lot of our favorite local sake. Bars are starting to open up again. , they’re out on the streets now because indoor dining is still a big no-no. , but, as much as I do enjoy having drinks at home,
I felt like I needed to get out a little bit and have some sake outside.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:01:27] Yeah, well, great minds think alike because I did exactly the same thing. I went to Decibel, which is a well known sake bar here in New York City. And the moment I arrived. the manager came up to me and he said, Hey. Your buddy Puma was around.

John Puma: [00:01:47] Yeah. Well, you know, like you said, a great minds and such, and I do like that. We’re maintaining social distancing. By going on different nights. That’s important.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:01:59] Yes, not only social distancing, but temporal distancing too. We went on different nights. It’s the temporal prime directive.

John Puma: [00:02:09] Yeah. okay. So, what did you think the experience of having sake outside in Manhattan. in the little, cornered off area on the street.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:02:18] Well, you know, some restaurants are going to pretty. deep lengths here to make it a little bit homey. Like they have the sections carved out where the cars park and it’s well-protected and, they set up lights and some bring plants out and it’s really can be homey and really nice. So we had a beautiful summer night and I really enjoyed sitting outside. how about you.

John Puma: [00:02:40] Same thing here. I also enjoyed the protected aspect of it as well. Cause you are kind of barriered off from a lot of things. They also added some more tables. on the side with large, plexiglass shields in between them so they can put the tables physically close to each other without needing to worry about the safety of the people at those tables. This is great. It was really nice and easy. It felt like they really were taking a lot of steps to make sure that everybody is safe as possible , given the current scenario.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:03:11] Yeah. And at Decibel, normally, if you go down there you go down the stairs and you get seated in us. Server comes over to your table and you look at the menu. It was a lot more casual being outside. They had basically a bar set up near the entrance and you’d go up and look at the menu. Order what you want pay for it right there. And then they bring you the sake and they bring you the food and everything kind of disposable. And it was almost like, you know, backyard barbecue kind of feel to it. Right.

John Puma: [00:03:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, kind of a little, little sake picnic.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:03:44] Yes. That’s right.

John Puma: [00:03:46] I like that. I also, I think one of my favorite things that I’ve seen a lot of these places doing, because you can’t have conventional menus because everybody’s gonna be touching them and that’s a big no-no. They are just putting QR codes on the tables. You come up, you scan the QR code, the menus on your phone, and then you go and make your order. It’s great.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:04:05] Yeah, I really enjoyed it. the only downside is, I was obsessive checking the weather before I went. They have some tents up, but still, I don’t want to get rained on. So if the weather. Takes a turn for the worst. It’s not so good.

John Puma: [00:04:20] Yeah. I mean, it’s not like working at a hurricane here or anything.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:04:24] Which we just did.

John Puma: [00:04:27] Yeah, that must’ve been a bad night to be at the bar. Uh, alright, so Tim, what do we have in store for us today? I understand it’s going to be, our usual sake education corner, and then we’re going to sip some Sake. What’d you bring.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:04:44] well, I brought a fun sake today. I have, let me get it out here. I have.
Born gold.

John Puma: [00:04:55] Really. Oh, uh, all right. Well, that’s interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:04:59] What did you bring? John?

John Puma: [00:05:00] Um, I have. Born gold

Timothy Sullivan: [00:05:05] No, you’re kidding me. Really?!

John Puma: [00:05:08] Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:05:09] Oh, my God.

John Puma: [00:05:11] If we actually organized our sake purchases, then this would make a lot more sense. And we’d always have the same sake, but we don’t do that. And so.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:05:20] Well, I guess great minds do think alike don’t they?

John Puma: [00:05:25] yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:05:25] Well, you know, when we first started the podcast, we were sitting side by side and we were drinking the same sake. And ever since we’ve been socially distanced, we have always had different sockies so this is kind of a fun oopsie, right?

John Puma: [00:05:39] This is this, this is a nice, it’s going to be interesting. I tend to enjoy the sake. I think , I do. Like it quite a bit. , born , as a brand makes a whole lot of stuff that I tend to like. or how familiar are you with them?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:05:52] I’m pretty familiar. I’ve. You know, talk to the brewery, president mr. Cocteau, many, many times over the years, I’ve never visited this brewery. Um, but it’s in a place called Fukui prefecture. That’s on the Sea of Japan side of the main Island. down. on the Western side of the main Island. And yeah. You know what Fukui is really famous for? I think this is funny.

John Puma: [00:06:19] I don’t, but I’m ready.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:06:20] Fukui is famous for dinosaur fossils.

John Puma: [00:06:24] Wait, what?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:06:25] Dinosaur. Dinosaur fossils. you thought I was going to say strawberries or cherries or

John Puma: [00:06:30] Usually it’s something like that. Yeah. Fukui melons. Sure.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:06:36] Some of the most well-preserved and most famous dinosaur fossils in Japan are from Fukui. So it’s like a hotbed for archeologists.

John Puma: [00:06:47] That’s it. I had no idea. I didn’t even know they were dinosaur fossils on the islands of Japan. That is fascinating.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:06:54] Yeah, I once was at a sake tasting and this sake brewer, it was not Mr. Kato, but another sake brewer had a little toy dinosaur on his display table and I’m like, what’s up with the dinosaur. And he’s like, Oh, I’m from Fukui. The land of dinosaurs. I’m like, okay.

John Puma: [00:07:11] Did it have like an amusement park or something for dinosaurs?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:07:14] Oh, they should, if they don’t, they really should.

John Puma: [00:07:16] They need to have a little Jurassic… but well, maybe not call it Jurassic Park. That would be bad. Those tend to go poorly.
By the way, if you are a frequent listener, you may recall that I drank a sake from Fukui, a few episodes back. It was the Honda gucky loosen a Age in my deck and Joe. Same region. Very, very different flavor profile though.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:07:41] Absolutely. So, this brewery name is also a mouthful. So the family name is Kato, right? So the president is Mr. Kato. …and the official brewery name is Cocteau. Kato-ki-chibi-shoten.

John Puma: [00:07:59] Alright, I lied. I wasn’t ready.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:00] Kato-ki-chibi-shoten

John Puma: [00:08:03] …ki-chibi-shoten

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:05] Kato-ki-chibi-shoten

John Puma: [00:08:07] oh, okay.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:08] Yeah, that’s a mouthful. So

John Puma: [00:08:10] It is, it is

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:10] they call it born B- O- R- N. Which is a lot easier to say.

John Puma: [00:08:15] Right now, is that the Japanese word born or is that the English word born?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:20] It’s the English word born.
Yeah. It’s pronounced kind of bomb in Japanese. So it sounds like born. So they, they went with born.
But I think it is kind of an evocative name. Like, born.

John Puma: [00:08:37] To be alive.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:41] Now another interesting thing about this brewery, John, is that they make only Junmai Daiginjo sake.

John Puma: [00:08:48] Ah, so they’re the super premium gang.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:08:51] That’s right. There’s a handful of breweries in Japan that only make super premium Junmai style sake. So Junmai Daiginjo only. Most breweries are not so specialized. They make a wide variety of sakes. Honjozo, you know, all different grades, but some breweries focus in primarily on Junmai Daiginjo. And Born is one of them. And they really target that luxury market.

John Puma: [00:09:19] Yeah. , and my understanding is they also tend to age their sake at a very, very cold temperatures. This is a piece of information. I had picked up about them a long time ago.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:09:30] Yeah, it’s true. I think all their stuff is aged at freezing temperatures. Yeah.

John Puma: [00:09:36] Nice.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:09:37] And speaking of the luxury market, the born gold label is gold with gold foil on it. So it looks like gold.

John Puma: [00:09:46] It does. , it looks very luxurious. what is yours from actually? So born does actually. , put their dates on the bottle for their exported sake. Which is really nice. mine is, , 2019. August exactly one year old.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:07] Okay. Mine is 2020/01.

John Puma: [00:10:10] Ooh.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:12] of this year? Yes.

John Puma: [00:10:14] Newer than me.
We’ll see if there’s any, , any subtle differences in the flavor. That’ll be interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:21] Yeah. So since we both have the same thing, , should we review the specs for this one?

John Puma: [00:10:27] We should, we should, I believe this is a Yamadanishiki based sake. Polish on the 50%?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:35] That’s right. The sake rice is Yamada. Nishiki the King of sake rice. 50% milling.

John Puma: [00:10:41] The King.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:42] the alcohol is a 15%. 15.5 around there. And the, SMV is plus one.

John Puma: [00:10:54] Oh, so it’s almost neutral.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:10:56] Yeah. So again, the SMV sake meter value, the plus numbers as you go up, get drier and drier and the negative numbers get sweeter. So the closer you are to zero kind of, , theoretically the more balanced between sweet and dry, you’re going to get. And then acidity is 1.5. So acidity is like a 1.0, to 2.0 range, generally speaking. So this is right in the middle. So probably a nice balanced acidity as well.

John Puma: [00:11:22] Nice. and I have a note here. This one was aged for a one year at negative 10 degrees Celsius.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:11:28] Yes, this does have a year of aging. And I don’t know if you can see it, but what the bottle is actually clear glass, which is pretty unusual

John Puma: [00:11:38] Yeah,

Timothy Sullivan: [00:11:38] sake. Normally they’re green or Brown. Can you see a little hint of color to this?

John Puma: [00:11:44] Um, Very slight

Timothy Sullivan: [00:11:45] little bit of. Hint of like a straw color in there. I think that comes from the aging, but it’s a very, very light. And it may be some of the gold foil reflecting

John Puma: [00:11:58] I’m not sure how much is getting bounced around in inside the label. When I look at it like that. Well, I think that’s a better question for when we pour it.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:12:05] Yes.

John Puma: [00:12:06] and if you’re feeling impatient, And want to know about the color , you should do that. I’m not gonna stop you.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:12:15] Alright, well, I say in these modern times, We should. “Carpe Sake”.

John Puma: [00:12:23] Oh, all right then. Well then why don’t you I’ll open that up and pour it. live for the moment. Live for the day. Live for the sake.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:12:32] All right. Open this up.
Pour it.
All right. Let’s see.
Hmm.
Smells good.

John Puma: [00:12:44] All right now in your, in your glass, is that slight bit of Amber color showing up?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:12:48] It is very, very light,

John Puma: [00:12:51] that yeah. Then it’s probably is from the aging

Timothy Sullivan: [00:12:53] Yeah, I think it is. ,

John Puma: [00:12:54] Mine will have been aged, , a year at negative 10 and then a year, hopefully refrigerated.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:13:01] Yeah, , the aroma for me is. very perfumey

John Puma: [00:13:06] Oh,

Timothy Sullivan: [00:13:06] Floral. And fruity, but concentrated and rich. I think that agent gives it a richness. So John, I feel alone here. So I think you have to pour yours as well.

John Puma: [00:13:17] Well, since you insist.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:13:19] I do insist.

John Puma: [00:13:20] Alright. I think we’re breaching etiquette, drinking sake 10 minutes into the show, but. I’m not complaining. alright. Mine also. Yeah, very, very slight, Amber, which was nice.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:13:43] It’s so strange having the same thing.

John Puma: [00:13:46] It is bizarre. I’m used to tasting something completely isolated and being like, Oh, I can say whatever I want, because Tim doesn’t have to say things in front of him. No. I was like, Oh, What if I’m wrong?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:13:58] Yeah. So I said the aroma was kind of perfumey a little bit, Floral.

John Puma: [00:14:04] Plenty of floral. I don’t know too much. I don’t know if I. Notice the perfume so much the perfumey-ness to it. I say that because I’m very sensitive to perfume like actual perfume. And, , at any meeting that I attend to bother my sinuses a little bit. So. I’m not having that. And that’s something that I associate with that type of aroma.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:14:24] Well, when I say perfumey, I mean more of the expression of the intensity of the aroma. Uh, not that it smells like a specific perfume, but that , perfume tends to be a little bit more overt of an aroma.

John Puma: [00:14:39] OK. That that helps a lot. And that makes sense.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:14:42] So the aromas not shy. That’s another way of

John Puma: [00:14:45] Oh, it is definitely not.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:14:47] Okay, let’s go ahead and give it a taste.
Hmm.
It’s definitely rich. The body has some richness and, , viscosity to it. Doesn’t it.

John Puma: [00:15:01] there’s a lot of coating going on in the mouth. In just one sip.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:15:04] Yeah. I think the point you mentioned about this being an aged sake, aged for one year at below freezing temperatures is such an important characteristic. Such an important marker for this sake. It informs so much. I think about the texture and the concentration of the aroma and the flavors. , and it adds, I think we can both agree that there’s a silkiness and a velvety texture to this. Like it’s very smooth, very, very smooth.

John Puma: [00:15:33] this is one of those functions that’s going to. disappear. If you are not careful about how fast you were drinking and how much you’re enjoying it, it’s one of those things. It’s very mild and very, in my head, at least it’s very mild and something that you can just kind of endlessly sip.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:15:51] Yeah. It goes down very easily, but it does have a bit, it’s not. Goes down easily and is light. There’s a richness here. There’s a coating to the
palate and there’s a perfumed essence to the nose. So for me, this has an intensity to it. That lighter sake don’t have. it’s very velvety and rich, very luxurious, but it has a bit of a presence there too.

John Puma: [00:16:15] I guess it would be a lot more comparable to. some of the earlier stuff we have from Yamagata on the show, or we’re talking about viscosity , and how that really. How that could really, really coats the entire mouth and really builds on itself as you’re sipping.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:16:34] So, have you ever met Mr. Kato? The president of Born sake brewery?

John Puma: [00:16:39] I have had the pleasure and I do mean that, uh, cause he is a character.
He is boisterous
And dresses the part I like you know he’s always wearing like a A pinstripe suit and his hair is slicked back and he is ready to tell you why you need to love his sake. That’s a.
Something I’ve always noticed about him.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:17:03] He’s definitely his breweries. Number one, marketing. Guru and cheerleader for the

John Puma: [00:17:10] Born Brand.
Oh, absolutely. He’s not shy about

Timothy Sullivan: [00:17:12] he’s definitely a character. he’s a very, very nice guy. Uh, but I have a favorite story about Mr.

John Puma: [00:17:19] Oh, I’m ready.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:17:20] Back in. 2011. , we had a fundraiser here in New York. For the, , earthquake relief. So there’s a, , the, , so Hoku earthquake. In March, 2011, I think a month later we had a big fundraiser. All the breweries got together. And Mr. Kato actually flew from Japan to come to our, it was called New York, loves Japan, and we did a big fundraiser to raise money for earthquake relief.
And Mr. Kato showed up kind of unexpected unannounced and.
Yeah, we weren’t really expecting many brewers to come because it was relatively short notice. he got on a plane, came here. And I was pouring sake at my table, and I looked over after about an hour into the event and it was very crowded, very popular event. And I saw one head sticking up above the crowd.
Mr. Kato got up on a chair. And he put one bottle of his sake in each hand. And as people were walking by, he was pouring. From one hand
than the other. And people just kind of held up their cup and he had a crowd around him and. at the end of sake events very often. Uh, No sun attracts a crowd because his personality is so magnetic and he’s pouring sake one out of each hand. And he was up on a chair. And I always have that image of him when I think of, , born sake brewery or Mr. Kato.

John Puma: [00:18:52] That is a, that sounds about right. For me. , whenever I see Kato-san At an event it’s. No matter how early I got there or how much attention I’m paying to who’s there. The first time I noticed him, it’s always when he shows up with a bottle and is pouring because that’s. , you mentioned he’s like , the number one cheerleader. And so he’s coming around all the time. He’s got his sake in his hand. He wants to put that.
sake in a cup so somebody can taste it. He wants to tend to experience this sake.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:19:23] that’s one thing I think that he and I have in common is that,

John Puma: [00:19:28] You like to pour sake for. Repeat random people

Timothy Sullivan: [00:19:30] We we like to pour sake. no, I’m a firm believer in that one taste can change your life.
Like one taste. Can get you hooked on sake and. In order to make that happen, you have to overcome. That barrier that some people have to trying sake. And his approach is to. be very outgoing and, really, use his exuberance to get people, to try sake. And, there’s lots of people that, really like that. And he makes only Junmai Daiginjo sake, which is like the super premium grade. So all his sakes tend to be a little bit more expensive,
more luxury oriented and, you know, really delicious and easy to really like them, cause they’re so smooth and. Delicious.

John Puma: [00:20:20] Yeah. , I, this one though, I will say , the gold is actually very reasonably priced.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:20:25] Hmm.

John Puma: [00:20:25] …in my opinion, at least. And based on my experiences buying it, it’s an it’s occasionally a, , go-to for me because of its. position in me price versus quality spectrum. I think it’s in a really good spot where he has a really great flavor to it, but it also doesn’t break the bank.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:20:44] Yep. Yeah, I think of his lineup. , this born gold is one of the more affordable options.
Mr. Kato also makes a sake called Dreams Come True. Have you ever tried that?

John Puma: [00:20:59] I think I have, I think the man himself has poured me a glass of that.
Um, just once, just once though.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:21:07] That is their super luxury high end sake. They give that as a gift to like heads of state and things like that. So it’s, yeah, it’s like a super high end sake, but the brand, the name of that sake is called Dreams Come True. And Mr. Kato always says, if you drink this sake, you will have visions of the future.
And it is so. So funny. , and I it’s amazing sakes, so good. And if I get a chance to get a sip of it at a sake event, I always pay attention to my dreams. . I’m a firm believer in dreams come true.

John Puma: [00:21:45] I see, I did not know that it would give me, um, powers beyond the realm of normal space and time. So I was not paying a lot of attention following. However, it was delicious , I actually, when you brought it up, I brought up a spec sheets that I can kind of see what this was all about. And this dreams come true, which.
For people at home just to reiterate, we are not currently drinking.
Uh,

Timothy Sullivan: [00:22:13] We are not drinking dreams come true.

John Puma: [00:22:15] no, Maybe we’ll celebrate with a bottle when we can finally do the show again together.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:22:20] Our dreams did not come true today.

John Puma: [00:22:22] No, no. Um,

Timothy Sullivan: [00:22:24] So what are the specs for for it?

John Puma: [00:22:26] So it is also a Yamada Nishiki. it’s polished on a 35%. It’s using the same yeast. But it’s aged. At negative eight degrees Celsius for five years.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:22:41] Oh my gosh

John Puma: [00:22:44] So that’s going to be. Really interesting. Again, I have tasted I, but I didn’t. Yeah. Sometimes somebody for something for you, you don’t know what you’re getting necessarily at the time. You don’t, you’re like, Oh, this is delicious, but you don’t know. Oh, this was age for five years and negative eight degrees.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:23:02] Yeah. I mean, very often when we go to sake events, there’s like, you know, a bunch of tables and you go from table to table and there’s a whole bunch of people around you and you don’t get the chance always to get the whole skinny on every single sake that you taste. Sometimes you just get it and you taste it and you just react to it. but that is something that I didn’t even know about dreams come true. Five years in the making that could technically be technically be a Koshu or an aged sakes aged on purpose sake.

John Puma: [00:23:32] Um, but I think that they’re not going to necessarily call it Koshu because that puts an idea in your head of what it tastes like. And. You know, just like , when a brewery, even though they’re milling ratio may call for them to call something a ginjo or a daiginjo, et cetera, et cetera. And they choose to go with the one that, that’s hitting , the flavor profile they’re going for. and they”ll use that. And I think that this case, yeah, you may want to not use Koshu because here it’s going to make you think of more desserty stuff. I think. Yeah. What do you think of.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:24:05] Well, going back to born gold. What do you think about food pairings for this sake?

John Puma: [00:24:10] Ooh. Um, so this is interesting. So Born gold is on the menu at. For people who listened to last week’s episode, John talked about his a-ha moment , and John’s aha moment took place a izakaya in New York that. Is no longer in the same place that it was what they still exist.
And the Kaori as long as it’s left their menu, but the born gold is now kind of thing that my friend and I, that same friend, when we go there, . We’ll have born gold with all of our very very delicious izakaya food. And so I’ve never given a lot of thought to what to pair Born Gold with because I just drink it with that stuff. And I love it.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:24:56] Yup. So , this okay for you was a-ha-adjacent.

John Puma: [00:25:00] It has its shares a common heritage with my a-ha sake

Timothy Sullivan: [00:25:03] Okay. Well, I think that izakaya food that would be, for our listeners. That’s like sake pub, a lot of, deep fried Japanese comfort food kind of dishes and, really delicious.

John Puma: [00:25:17] I don’t get too much deep fried stuff when I go. I’m not, you know, But I do a little bit. Uh, but yeah, lots of really, you know, I guess maybe I think what I often get when I go there is a. It’s like soft shell crab tempura.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:25:32] I hate to break it to you, but tempura is deep fried.

John Puma: [00:25:35] Well, no . I was trying to find something that was deep fried that I get when I go there. So I’m aware Tim, that fried…
oh man, come on give me a littel credit…

Timothy Sullivan: [00:25:47] Well, it does pair well with fried food, my idea for food pairing was like, I was thinking of dishes that have like, Not Curry. not the spice of Curry, but you know, if you have like a beef dish with, sauce on it, or. Beef bourguignon, for example, that’s something that it’s a French dish that has a very umami, rich, beefy red wine sauce.
And this has enough body enough presence. I think to really stand up to something like beef bourguignon and It’s really has that richness in that viscosity that you need, but it’s not over the top. It’s not aged five years. It’s not aged 10 years. It’s aged one year and that aging, gives you that richness that you need to stand up to a dish like that. So that, that would be my pairing pick.

John Puma: [00:26:44] Nice now out of curiosity. So this is aged from one year, but it’s aged at this extremely cold temperature. That that’s going to really slow down. The. Aging process, I guess you’d say on that sake. So what, what impact is that going to have? Uh, since it’s so cold.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:27:05] Yep. Well, one, one thing that in my understanding. The aging process at really low temperatures can slow down oxidation. And oxidation is the exposure of the sake to oxygen over time. And what that can do is darken the sake. Koshu, as you mentioned before, has a certain image to it. Koshu is aged on purpose. sake usually three years or longer.
And Koshu tends to be brownish Sherry, like in appearance. And, you know, what’s causing that Brown color is actually the sugars start to caramelize the sugars that are in the sake. Caramelized over time and you get that toffee, dark chocolate. Tobacco notes in the sake. When you age a sake at very, very low temperatures. You put the brakes on that process and you’re not gonna get the caramelization of those sugars. So the sake is going to remain.
Clear in color and a little bit more, un-aged in the traditional sense.

John Puma: [00:28:12] Interesting. All right.
One thing I’m noticing as this warms up a little bit. cause when we record, I do not have my air conditioner on. So it is getting a little warm in here. And. It is getting. Is tasting and the aroma especially is a little sweeter or presenting as a little bit sweeter to me.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:28:34] Yeah.

John Puma: [00:28:34] Which is very interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:28:36] Yeah.

John Puma: [00:28:38] They say that’s not really changes every five degrees, right? Is that, is that , the GoTo is that the, ,

Timothy Sullivan: [00:28:42] Is that what they say?

John Puma: [00:28:44] Is that what they say?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:28:46] I think you just
invented that

John Puma: [00:28:47] I’ve heard them say it. I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s anything to it though.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:28:51] I think we can put that on the sake revolution website as a quote from John Puma.

John Puma: [00:28:57] That’s not a
quote from John Puma.
I borrowed that quote from elsewhere.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:29:03] I always say that enjoying sake at different temperatures is one of the charms of sake Like it’s one of the. Points that differentiate sake from other alcoholic beverages is that you can enjoy it at different temperatures. And enjoy different aspects of sake And as you make a sake colder and colder, you are going to hide certain aspects of the sake and sweetness could be one of those things that gets a little bit more buried and covered up as it gets colder. So as it approaches room temperature, That sweetness in the sugars can come out a little bit more on the flavor profile.

John Puma: [00:29:41] Yeah, they’re definitely coming out to play a little bit here. This is

Timothy Sullivan: [00:29:43] interesting.

John Puma: [00:29:43] Yeah.
Nice. Well, Tim, um, I think we forgot to do the Sake Education Corner…

Timothy Sullivan: [00:29:52] where are we going to do a Sake education corner?

John Puma: [00:29:54] We were.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:29:55] Hm. I don’t remember. Well, we’ll, we’ll pick up next week where we left off

John Puma: [00:30:00] alright. Okay. So next week we’ll do two Sake education corners. No, no.
It’s been fun to just talk about, a particular sake with you for a while, especially the same sake who Knew!?

Timothy Sullivan: [00:30:14] I know we both had the same one. That’s unbelievable.

John Puma: [00:30:17] Who knew that could be so much fun. We should probably try to coordinate our purchases every now and again. In the future.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:30:24] Roger that. All right. Well, thanks so much to all our listeners for tuning in. We really hope that you’re enjoying our show. If you’d like to show your support for sake revolution, one way you can really help us out would be to take a couple minutes and leave us a written review on Apple podcasts. It’s one of the best ways for you to help us get the word out about our podcast.

John Puma: [00:30:49] That’s right. And if you, for some reason, you know, want also tell a friend that’s also a really great way to get the word out, but also. Make sure that you and your friends subscribe so that this wonderful podcast we’ll just pop into your device of choice every week, all by itself. And you’ll never miss an episode.

Timothy Sullivan: [00:31:10] And it’s always to learn more about any of the topics or the sake we talked about in today’s episode, be sure to visit our website, SakeRevolution.com for all the detailed show notes.

John Puma: [00:31:23] And if you have a Sake question that you need answered, we want to hear from you. Please reach out to us at [email protected]. And so until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake and… kanpai!