Episode 69 Show Notes
Episode 69. Onward in our series all about “shibori” or sake pressing. This week’s episode focuses in on the Assaku-ki (compression machine), known more informally as the “yabuta” sake press. As Xerox is to photo copies and Kleenex is to facial tissue, so is the Yabuta to the automatic sake press. It’s a sake press brand name that has become synonymous with the process itself. The yabuta is often compared to an accordion in appearance and uses a series of frames stacked one next to another. The sake mash is pumped into the space between each frame. Every other frame is sandwiched with a flat balloon that gets inflated and squeezes the mash, forcing the sake out the bottom, while the rice solids are held back. The genius of the yubuta design is that the frames can then be opened up and the leftover sake lees (kasu) can be extracted. Compared to the “fune” press, the yabuta cuts the time it takes to press the mash in half and it is the most common sake pressing method in use today. Join us as we squeeze in another episode on the high pressure work of “shibori.”
Skip to: 00:19
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
This video shows an in-depth view of the “yabuta” press, also known as the “assaku-ki” (NOTE: click on the “CC” button to ensure the English subtitles are showing). This machine is the most automated and time efficient way to press sake. The yabuta press is made up of many frames. When the fabric-lined frames are stacked side by side, sake mash can be pumped down into each frame. Now, between every other frame is a flat bladder or balloon that is inflated with air. as this fills with air, it squeezes the mash and the liquid gets force out of the yabuta. the unfermented rice solids are held back. the frames can then be separated and the sake ‘kasu’ can be peeled out. in the span of 24 hours, a whole tank of sake can be pressed.
Yabuta at Jozen Mizunogotoshi
This week, Timothy and John tasting Jozen Mizunogotoshi Aqua Junmai sake and this video shows you the actual Yabuta press from this brewery and the removal of the kasu (sake lees) from the yabuta press:
Jozen Mizunogotoshi Aqua Junmai
Brewery: Shirataki Shuzo
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku, Koshiibuki
Brand: Jozen Mizunogotoshi (上善如水)
Importer: Wismettac (USA)
Sake Name English: Aqua
View on UrbanSake.com: Jozen Mizunogotoshi Aqua Junmai
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.
Skip to: 21:11
Minami Uonuma Japan is the home base for the highest quality Koshi Hikari rice production. The “shin mai” or fresh crop rice harvest is highly prized!
This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!
Episode 69 Transcript
John Puma: 0:22
Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This in case you haven’t heard is America’s first sake podcast. I’m your host, John Puma from the sake notes. Also the internet sake discord guy, the r/sake Reddit guy. And definitely not the sake samurai guy.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:42
All right. And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am the sake samurai guy. I am also a sake educator. As well as the founder of the Urban Sake website and every week, John and I will be here, a tasting and also chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.
John Puma: 1:03
That’s right. And if today you are joining us for the first time you are in luck because you can go back one episode and start at the beginning of this little series that we’re doing. Tim we’re in episode two of our series on the different pressing methods. Uh, if you want to give a quick little recap about what we went over in episode 1.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:23
Sure. So the previous episode for our mini series on sake pressing just a quick recap, what is pressing all about? Well, when you’ve got your sake mash, you need to separate the alcohol from the unfermented rice. And we do this in a step, which we call pressing.
John Puma: 1:44
I mean, it’s a good, straightforward and accurate name in my opinion. You have your bags, you got your moromi in the bags. You literally, you press, and then the sake comes out. That is no, there’s no magic because this one it’s just pressing. And is there like, is it understood as pressing in Japanese,
Timothy Sullivan: 2:01
Well, it’s called shibori in Japanese, and that means squeezing actually.
John Puma: 2:07
um, squeezing, squeezing, pressing guys, we went into a lot more detail on this in the previous episode.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:13
Do you, can you think of any other sakes that have Shibori in them? Anything ring a bell?
John Puma: 2:18
Timothy Sullivan: 2:20
You got it. ding ding ding shiboritate that’s freshly squeezed or freshly pressed sake. All right. Good one. Last week we talked about The “fune” or the boat method. Remember
John Puma: 2:36
boat method. I’m uh, I, I didn’t realize we’re going to go nautical on that first one, but yeah, the boat method.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:44
ahoy. Matey. Yes. We talked about the boat and how you fill these bags called fukuro They’re like long, skinny. Pillowcase type bags. You fill them with the moromi mash and then you lay them in a box. And then pressure is applied from above. And there’s a hole in the front bottom section of the box. and clear sake is pressed through the fabric and comes out clear. So that is our fune method recap. But today. We’re talking
John Puma: 3:18
food and method recap.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:21
today. We’re talking about another method and
John Puma: 3:25
Yes. Uh, this is, uh, this is a fun one. I think this is a fun method in my opinion. Um, because it’s, as far as I’m aware, the only one that’s got like the Xerox effect going on for its naming.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:40
well, before we get to the Xerox effect, we can call this the assaku-ki methods. So assaku means compression and ki means machine. So the general term for this is assaku-ki, and that would be the machine that does the compression, but there is a much more widely used term for this method. And John, do you know what that is?
John Puma: 4:06
well, I do, but I want to say first that I think once or twice in my life, have I ever heard the proper name for the method.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:17
John Puma: 4:18
It, for me, it has always, always been known as yabuta.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:23
yabuta. Yes. So what will tell us what you know about yabuta?
John Puma: 4:29
So what I know about yabuta, is that there is a large machine. That looks a little bit like an accordion, like a giant accordion.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:40
John Puma: 4:41
And it is hydraulically pushed from one end
Timothy Sullivan: 4:46
John Puma: 4:46
and the sake comes out the front,
Timothy Sullivan: 4:50
Okay, Well, that’s the cliff notes version.
John Puma: 4:54
It is, well, you know, that, that’s what I’m here for the deep dives come from the sake samurai.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:59
So we’re gonna, we’re gonna nestle into the education corner right now.
John Puma: 5:03
Timothy Sullivan: 5:05
When I first looked at the, yabuta and we should explain that, yabuta is a brand name for this machine, like Q-tip or Kleenex or Xerox, so this is a brand name, one maker’s name that is very dominant in the space and their brand kind of took over the terminology for the machine. But technically again, it’s called “assaku” which means compression. So, but many, many, many people also call it yabuta for the process. And it does look like. A giant accordion and it does have one giant metal arm on one side that compresses and the, the press itself is made up of frames. So I want you to think like picture frames, stacked one next to the other, and then they make. A long row of them. And each one has about one inch of depth to it. And a lot of people looking at this machine assume that this giant hydraulic arm sticking off one end is what squeezes the whole contraption and gets the sake to come out. But that is Not true.
John Puma: 6:18
Not the whole, no, not quite like that. No, it would be awesome if it was.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:23
So the way it works in a nutshell is that the compression arm on the side holds all the frames together. And then the mash is pumped in along the top and goes down into those sections between each frame. So there’s that little bit of space between each frame and then every other frame is actually. Bladder or a balloon. So every other frame is metal and solid and firm. And then the next one is going to be a rubber. Bladder. And then they pump air into the bladders and they squeeze both sides. And that is what applies pressure to the mash that’s trapped in those frames. And then at the bottom of the frame, there’s a little slit where liquid gets pushed out. So it is this series of frames that are pushed together, held together. The mash goes in, slides down inside each of the frames. And then compressed air is pumped into every other frame and it expands as a, like a rubber balloon or a rubber bladder in there. And then the liquid comes out the bottom.
John Puma: 7:45
Timothy Sullivan: 7:46
what makes it interesting is that then you can release the frames and open them up and inside is waiting. What, what what’s going to be.
John Puma: 7:56
is this gonna be something I have to clean?
Timothy Sullivan: 7:58
Yes. It’s sake Kasu of course. yes. So all the leftover unfermented rice is left in these frames, and then you can scrape them out. And then that sake kasu is the by-product of sake.
John Puma: 8:18
Yeah. And I do remember from visiting you, when you were, um, an intern over at hakaissan and you were telling us stories about cleaning the yabuta. and, and how, there, there is a lot, there’s a lot of kasu. There’s a great deal of kasu because this machine is impressively large. At least the one that you guys had was.
Timothy Sullivan: 8:40
It’s very large. You can picture it. 150 to 200 frames. And once the pressing is done now, the Fu name method we talked about last week, that takes about two days the whole process. So once you load the bags in, you let the gravity pull out what it can. Then you start pressing down. Then you may rearrange the bags a little bit, press some more. So that whole process is like two days and the yabuta. Takes only about one day. So this cut the pressing time in half moving to this automated pressing machine. And a lot of these pressing machines are also located in refrigerated rooms so that the sake never reaches room temperature, even while it’s being pressed.
John Puma: 9:30
Timothy Sullivan: 9:32
And there’s different configurations of these machines, as far as how you deal with the kasu or the leftover pressings. The place where I worked had a conveyor belt below. So when you opened up the frame, you scraped it out, it would just fall down. And hit a conveyor belt and be moved along.
John Puma: 9:55
Oh, that sounds much more pleasant than the alternate.
Timothy Sullivan: 9:57
yeah, I mean, some breweries I’ve visited had like a large metal tray on rolling casters. Like, you know, those sweater boxes you put under your bed that have the, from the container store
John Puma: 10:11
Yes, I do actually
Timothy Sullivan: 10:12
So something like that made out of stainless steel and it would fall down in and you had to roll it out, pick it up and do something with it.
John Puma: 10:20
a little mini mine car.
Timothy Sullivan: 10:22
Yeah. And the most labor-intensive method is having to scrape out the kasu and collect it piece by piece on your hand, and then place it somewhere, like literally scrape it out and carefully place it in a bag or on a, on a collection table. And that is the most difficult, because if you scrape it a certain way and it doesn’t fall out in one piece, you’ve got a broken piece of kasu and it’s very stressful. So letting it fall down and have it collected automatically is, is the most time efficient way to do
John Puma: 10:59
A broken piece of kasu is stressful. This is some fortune cookie stuff we need to harvest this.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:07
Yeah. The reason is some breweries package up their kasu in plastic bags and they sell it. And if a piece is broken, it’s not as beautiful in the package. So they want them to come out really clean and neat if they’re going to be selling them as is. So that’s the reason for That
John Puma: 11:25
That makes sense.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:26
I do want to say that cleaning out the yabuta was my favorite job of everything I did at the brewery. I loved that job, the best.
John Puma: 11:34
you mentioned it was very Zen.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:36
it was very Zen. You have. We had a time target for scraping all the kasu out of each panel.
John Puma: 11:44
Timothy Sullivan: 11:45
So I had to like, okay, I have to do this in 45 seconds. Right. There was an automated panel mover that would slide the next panel over on like a chain. So I knew that the panel was going to come Flying at me in 45 seconds. So I had to scrape.
John Puma: 12:04
Flying at you.
Timothy Sullivan: 12:07
there was a manual button, but you could also set it on automatic. So when they were first training me, they did. Manually where I would scrape, scrape, scrape. We would get both sides. So you’re facing another person on the other side and you’re both scraping one half of the panel. And so we would do it. He would push a button and then the panel would fly from your left to your right. And then there would be another panel with fresh kasu and you’d scrape that out. But there was also an automatic setting, which was much higher pressure. Think about, you know, Lucy and the candy factory. When the candy start coming down, the conveyor belt, she can’t wrap
John Puma: 12:42
gotta go. Can you, can you quickly turn it to manual if you become overwhelmed?
Timothy Sullivan: 12:46
absolutely. There were there, it was completely safe, but, uh, they wanted to keep the time pressure going so that, you know, you had to strike a balance between thoroughness and efficiency as well.
John Puma: 13:01
That’s yeah. That’s usually how it goes.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:03
Hm. Yeah. But the reason it was my favorite thing is because of the aroma. So the
John Puma: 13:10
Okay. That must be really pleasant.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:12
it was amazing. It was sometimes almost overwhelming. Like the wafting sake boozy aromas coming off, the fresh freshly squeezed Kasu was, it was fantastic, but it, sometimes it hits you really. But I
John Puma: 13:30
Sometimes it hits you really hard. Okay.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:34
yeah, but it was, it was fun and engaging some steps of sakeing making, like when you’re in the Koji room, there’s periods of activity, but then you need to wait sometimes. So you’re sitting around waiting for something to. Finish or some certain amount of time to elapse or for the temperature to change to a certain temperature. Like the Koji needed to go down two more degrees in temperature before we can go onto the next step. And you’d just be waiting, waiting, waiting. But this was like, once you got started, it was like, you went straight through 200 panels and it kept you very focused and time would fly by. And, uh, I really enjoyed that. That was very engaging and I felt like you’re being really productive.
John Puma: 14:18
Nice. I like that. That sounds good. That’s it productive time flying by. These are things that are good at, you know, these are good qualities in work. Okay.
Timothy Sullivan: 14:27
John Puma: 14:29
Nice. Uh, speaking of work, actually, no speaking of not work at all. my understanding is that, much like last episode, we have a sake with us today that was made using this method.
Timothy Sullivan: 14:44
Yes, we are going to be tasting a sake from Niigata. This was actually very close in the same region where I was working, but not the same brewery. This is from a brewery called shirataki. And they’re in Echigo Yuzawa Niigata and we are tasting there Junmai which is known as they call it the Aqua. And that’s because Aqua. Yeah. And that’s because of the blue color of the bottle. Aqua colored glass bottle. Yeah. Now, John, do you want to give us the stats for the Jozen Junmai?
John Puma: 15:29
I would love to Tim. So the Jozen Aqua. Is, as you mentioned, a Junmai from the brewery known as, Shirataki, over in Niigata, this has, uh, an ABV of 17 to 18%, sir. This is, uh, this is a high alcohol sake. I think you were trying to get us drunk, um, uh, the sake meter value is plus seven. And that’s that? That’s that, rating of, uh, kind of sweet to dry with dry being the higher plus numbers. And plus seven is pretty damn high.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:07
Yeah, this is one of the higher SMVs we’ve had on the show. Plus
John Puma: 16:11
think so. I think so. Um, let’s see, acidity is 1.6, a little high, and this sake rice was polished down to, 70%. And the rice in question question that was polished is Gohyakumangoku. And, uh, Koshi Ibuki.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:32
John Puma: 16:33
I am not that familiar with Koshi ibuki. Although, Gohyakumangoku, you know, very, very popular rice on this podcast.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:40
Yes. All right. Well, Let’s get this sake into our glass.
John Puma: 16:48
Uh, that’s some advice to live by
Timothy Sullivan: 16:58
All right. So we have Jozen Aqua. Junmai in the glass and mine looks pretty darn clear. I don’t
John Puma: 17:07
This is, this is one of the clearest sakes. I think I’ve ever seen this. It looks like water. It’s so clear.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:14
Yes. That is, I would say indicative of the region. Niigata really loves. Water clear sake and do that through charcoal filtering. And I think that that’s a safe bet that this sake was charcoal filtered to give it that super clear water, like appearance, which I really like.
John Puma: 17:36
Timothy Sullivan: 17:37
Yeah, Let’s give it
John Puma: 17:38
Yeah, I’m floored at how clear this is. Is this dramatic?
Timothy Sullivan: 17:42
John Puma: 17:44
What are you getting on the nose?
Timothy Sullivan: 17:45
Well, it’s very restrained.
John Puma: 17:48
Yeah, there’s not a lot.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:49
not a lot. And that’s another regional Niigata specialty. Um, a little bit of rice aroma, not too fruity.
John Puma: 17:58
Yeah. I get a little bit of rice and I do get a little bit of booze, um, that it is it’s going to be, you know, 17 to 18% is going to be hard to hide.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:05
Hm. But we do want to mention that this is a Junmai sake. So not one of those alcohol added styles, just purerice style. About 17 and a half percent alcohol. All right. So a little bit ricey, very light, very clear. So let’s give it a taste.
John Puma: 18:30
Hmm, the rice comes through a lot more on the taste.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:34
John Puma: 18:34
Like it was present in the aroma, like, you know, what was coming. Um, and then, and then once you take the sip, it’s, uh, it’s been knocked down the door and kind of Kool-Aid man coming in, but just a giant, yeah. shinpaku
Timothy Sullivan: 18:50
A giant Yabuta crashing through the wall
John Puma: 18:52
there you go.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:55
Yeah. And it is a dry wouldn’t you say?
John Puma: 18:59
Oh yeah, no, it’s very dry.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:00
the finish is dry
John Puma: 19:03
It is dry is crisp and a little bit ricey. it is. It has that, that clean, crisp, finished that I’m in dare I say, is indicative of the region.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:17
where do you pick this stuff up? Puma?
John Puma: 19:19
Hang out with these people. I don’t know.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:24
Yeah. So the only thing I would say that isn’t super Niigata regional about this sake is the alcohol percentage. Normally. 14, 15% flight, clean, crisp water, like, uh, and dry, but this, they pumped up the alcohol and, uh, that gives it some oomph that little, the Kool-Aid man impression crashing through the wall.
John Puma: 19:51
Yeah. And, and you can, yeah, that is there. It is. it is boozy. Like I think that that is, noticeable when you sip it. It’s kind of, especially if you take a big sip, it’s, it’s very like, oh wow. This, this is. This is not subtle at all. it’s not being masked by anything. It’s, it’s very much there. It’s not altogether. unwelcome. It’s nice. It’s just, I don’t think I’ve had sake recently where I tasted it and was like, wow, this, this tastes like it has a high alcohol content,
Timothy Sullivan: 20:25
John Puma: 20:26
but this definitely does. You know what I mean? They’ll usually, it’s kind of a little bit they’ll pump the sweetness up or something like that.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:33
Yeah. And I think, you know, the, the overall. Type of sake. this, is, I think is clean, easy drinking, and you can throw it against all types of Hardy food. So that
John Puma: 20:49
this, this wants needs Hardy food. to me, it comes across and you’ve pointed out a few times as well, that it is very, regionally distinct in a lot of ways.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:00
John Puma: 21:00
Are there specific foods in Niigata you did spend a year there that you think that that is in mind to go with this style of sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:11
Hmm, that’s a great question. Many of the Niigata brewers that I’ve spoken with. They’ve said that their goal is to pair as widely as possible. So the aroma is a little less distinct. The aromas, a little more reserved. The sake is very clear in color. So, use of activated carbon to make the sake really clear and water like, and the overall dry. Very lightly ricey kind of gentle aroma that’s meant to pair as broadly as possible. So I don’t think there’s an intent for this to pair with a hyper-local dish, but the most famous food from this region by far is Koshi Hikari rice. So there’s an eating rice in Japan. Koshi Hikari, the most expensive by the pound eating rice. You can buy. And it grows all around this region. So that’s really what this area is super well known for. Is this very delicious and very, coveted type of eating rice. Koshi Hikari.
John Puma: 22:24
Hmm. So ricey sake, I had to go with, very premium rice. It’s interesting.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:30
John Puma: 22:32
And have you had Koshi Hikari rice?
Timothy Sullivan: 22:34
Oh, my gosh. where I worked, the company cafeteria served it every day. So it was, it was
John Puma: 22:43
So you’re gonna be like, our pillows were
Timothy Sullivan: 22:44
John Puma: 22:45
with kochi hikari rice.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:47
It literally grew all around the brewery
John Puma: 22:50
Timothy Sullivan: 22:51
they would have. Two rice makers though, the company cafeteria was like a buffet service and you’d come in and everyone would stand in line with their tray, just like a high school cafeteria. But at the end they had two giant rice makers filled to the brim with Koshi Hikari and you, could just serve yourself. And I got so spoiled that whole year,
John Puma: 23:17
Can you, can youget Koshi Hikari in the states?
Timothy Sullivan: 23:20
You can, but it’s not the same because the, the very best is the shinmai, like the fresh harvested.
John Puma: 23:28
Oh, and that’s definitely not going to be something that got here.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:31
John Puma: 23:32
Got to sit on a boat for awhile. I would imagine.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:36
John Puma: 23:37
while we’re on the topic though, so Koshi Hikari rice is a, is obviously an eating rice. but there have been eating races that have crossed the threshold, in Niigata. Are they making sake with Koshi Hikari?
Timothy Sullivan: 23:49
There are some examples of that, but it’s not as common as you would think. It’s like the most common rice of that region, but it’s not as common for sake. I’ve seen it used in some beers and I’m sure there are some sake brewers who use Koshi Hikari, but. Many breweries that I’ve visited. Don’t use it regularly for their sake.
John Puma: 24:17
Hmm. Very interesting. so Tim, you know, now we we’ve talked about Yabuta, talked about cleaning Yabuta, uh, sipped a made with, uh, Yabuta. I have a question for you. Do you think. And I think this is probably a very subjective question. Do you think that the pressing method in this case, or in the case of the two that we’ve gone over so far, do you think that influences the flavor of the sake?
Timothy Sullivan: 24:50
Hmm. That’s really interesting. You know, I mentioned in our Fune episode, the previous episode, Some breweries use multiple pressing methods at the brewery where I worked, we had a Yabuta and we had a very small Fune and the Yabuta was used for the day in, day out, majority of the sakes and the little fune was used for only the ultra premium sakes. So there is some differentiation based on. The grade or quality of the sake that you’re pressing the, yabuta. Would generally be the work a day faster, more common method for pressing the sake and something like Fune is more labor intensive, more hands-on and more human intervention. And that’s usually reserved for the more premium styles of sake.
John Puma: 25:48
Timothy Sullivan: 25:49
But some breweries only have one press, whether it’s a Fune press or a Yabuta Press, they just have one pressing method for all their sakes. Now I know that shirataki uses, Yabuta because on their website, they have a video of the brewers cleaning out two different yabutas. And I know that they use them at their brewery. So, you know, for a Junmai Grade sake, it’s almost guaranteed ironclad that it would be pressed with that more accessible more, approachable, pressing method. That’s fast and more reliable, which is the, Yabuta. So you, I don’t think sipping a sake, you can really tell necessarily which pressing method was used based on the taste alone, but usually by the grade in classification, if there is going to be a difference. Yabuta is usually for the more approachable entry-level sakes.
John Puma: 26:48
Hmm. All right. That’s interesting. Um, I think that it has me really looking forward to our next episode that’s, so next week guys, tune in once again and see the exciting finale of our pressing series.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:07
It’s going to be a full court press. I was saving that one all episode. Okay.
John Puma: 27:17
and make like a squeeze the life out of you. Joke what? I can’t quite make it work. So anyway,
Timothy Sullivan: 27:25
John’s not laughing. So I’m going to have to insert the laugh track when we edit the episode.
John Puma: 27:29
need to get, you just need to make like a John laughing, uh, you know, just a, a button. No. Nope.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:41
All right. Well, we had our Fune and we had our Yabuta. And, uh, I am excited for what’s coming next week. Our final pressing method that we’re going to look into and John, great to taste with you as always. And I want to thank our listeners as well for tuning in. We really do hope that you’re enjoying our show. If you would like to show your support for Sake Revolution, the very best way That you can help us out and show your support would be to back us on Patreon.
John Puma: 28:12
This is a listener backed show We appreciate all of our listeners. And one thing that all of our listeners can do to help us out is. Going to your podcast platform of choice and writing a review, writing reviews is still a great way to help out your favorite sake podcast. It gets the show higher on the ratings that when people go looking for sake, this is what they see. That’s, it’s all, it’s all the algorithm guys. but also you can do the old fashioned way. Tell your friends, tell your family, get them to subscribe, you know, set a good example and you subscribe yourself a, this way. Every week, when we release a new episode, it’ll pop into your device of choice and you will not need to do anything else. It just happens. That’s isn’t that nice when life just happens and things occur and you’ve got wonderful sounds on your phone. I think it is.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:07
All right. And if you would like to learn more about any of the topics or sakes we tasted in today’s episode, be sure to visit our website. My favorite domain SakeRevolution.com for all the detailed show notes.
John Puma: 29:22
And for all of your sake question needs, we’ve got you covered. Please reach out to us at [email protected] And we will read every one of those questions that come through and we’ll even answer most of them too!. Uh, so until next time, please remember to keep drinking, sake everybody and Kanpai.