John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first Sake podcast and I am your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. I’m also the guy who started the internet Sake discord, and I’m also the lead mod over at Reddit’s r slash Sake community.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:36
and I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai, I’m a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake, doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Hello!

John Puma: 0:53
Tim. Welcome back to, uh, to the show.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:56
Yeah, welcome back to the studio.

John Puma: 0:59
This is the Zoom studio.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:00
Yes, it’s nice to be recording again. And I’m looking forward to some super yummy, yummy sake today.

John Puma: 1:08
Well, you are in luck because we do have some very yummy sake today. and, uh, so today we’re going back into one of our series, one of our fun series. and which, which series is this, Tim?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:21
going to be dipping our toe back into the branded series where we focus on one particular well known or interesting brand of sake and talk about what they’re all about.

John Puma: 1:33
What I find interesting is that typically when we do these branded episodes, they often end up being these brand new, um, brands or sometimes brand new breweries. Um, and that’s not the case today. Today we’ve got a brand and a brewery that’s been around for a long time, uh, but has recently gone through a little bit of a, a little bit of a shift. Is that, is that, is that a fair way to put it?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:58
Yeah. Like a reboot, redesign.

John Puma: 2:01
I or made a reboot That makes sense. so why don’t you, uh, tell the folks at home what we’re doing?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:07
Yeah. Let’s get into it. We’re going to be talking about the brand Masumi today. Now, before we get into all the details and history and all the stories. What do you know about Masumi off the top of your head? Because it is a well known brand that has been out there. So what, what do you know about Masumi? Mm

John Puma: 2:25
so things I know about Masami, uh, number one, they are located in Nagano, uh, they are right by Lake Suwa, we, I know that the family name is Miyasaka, and I know that they discovered yeast number seven?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:40
right.

John Puma: 2:41
is that right?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:42
good. Yes, you

John Puma: 2:43
Okay. All right.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:44
Yeah.

John Puma: 2:45
I wasn’t sure if it was like discovered or they cultivated or what. I know that, I know that I associate Masumi and yeast number seven.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:51
very good. Yeah. That’s the, that’s the cliff notes of the episode. So if you’re pressed for time, you can just stop here and John filled you in on the highlights of Masumi.

John Puma: 3:00
Well, you know, that’s just, that’s just. You know, just the cliff notes. You really should always read the full book.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:06
Absolutely. Uh, yeah, so the brewery name that makes the Masumi brand is Miyasaka Jozo. So, as you said, Miyasaka is the family name. And this brewery was founded in 1662, if you can believe it.

John Puma: 3:24
that’s, that’s even old by like sake brewery standards, like 1662. Oh my goodness.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:31
I don’t know, I don’t know the full story, but apparently they were They started out as sword makers, and then there was some like Middle Ages warring period in Japan, and they decided to put down the sword and pick up the sake and became sake makers. And, uh, yeah, so the, the family business started out sword making, then it switched to sake brewing. And there have been many, many generations of Miyasakas until we get to, uh, the current president. And I thought it might be interesting to talk about the. The word Masumi and why they chose that as your, their brand name and where does that come from?

John Puma: 4:16
All right.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:17
So you mentioned that the Brewery Miyasakajozo is on Lake Suwa in Nagano Prefecture, and there is a shrine there in Suwa, and the shrine has an ancient treasure which they keep and revere, and it’s actually an ancient bronze mirror. So it’s a piece of bronze that was polished eons ago to a mirror like finish, and this ancient treasure is Kept in the shrine and venerated there and They decided to name their sake Masumi which translates to transparency or truth So it’s it’s a reference to this mirror, which is Revered at their local shrine very Japanese, right? Yeah,

John Puma: 5:08
quite, quite, quite, but you know, that’s really cool actually. Yeah. That’s a, that’s nice. I like that. It’s got a local story associated with it. I think that’s pretty cool. Pretty cool.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:18
and one of their one of their sake’s is mirror of truth Uh, you may have had that in the past. It’s not what we’re tasting today. Spoiler alert. But, uh, one of their, one of their Masumi sakes is called Mirror of Truth. And that refers to the name Masumi and this bronze mirror that’s, um, the local treasure at the shrine.

John Puma: 5:37
Hmm. Yeah. And I, I am familiar with the mirror of truth that’s really cool now. Now, we mentioned in the Cliff Notes that they’ve also gotten a little bit of history associated with that brewery, uh, with this yeast and,

Timothy Sullivan: 5:50
Oh yeah.

John Puma: 5:51
and probably some other stuff. When you’re around since 1662, things happen around you sometimes, I think. So what are some of the highlights here?

Timothy Sullivan: 5:59
Yeah. Well, the yeast number seven is by and large the number one thing that Masumi is famous for. And they had a little bit of a dark period in the early part of the 20th century where, you know, they weren’t doing well. And the, uh, ancestors of the current president went around Japan and studied how to make sake and then. In the mid 1940s, they started winning gold medals all of a sudden at the national sake competitions. 1943 was the first time they took the first place in the national sake competition. And then they did it again the next year. So in 1946 Shoichi Yamada, the scientist from the National Brewing Institute, went to Suwa, went to Nagano, and want to examine what was making their sake so good. And they isolated number seven yeast for the first time. And

John Puma: 6:58
Wait a minute, wait a minute. So let me get this straight. I’m going to repeat some of this because I just want to make sure I have this 100%. So they were winning competitions and everyone was like, wait a minute. Why are these guys so good?

Timothy Sullivan: 7:09
yes.

John Puma: 7:10
And so they sent, so they sent somebody over to study it and were like, Oh wait, they discovered a new yeast by accident.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:16
Kind of. I think that’s it. Yes.

John Puma: 7:19
That’s so cool.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:20
mean, they weren’t, they weren’t fishing. They weren’t fishing for a new yeast, but my understanding is that this kind of, uh, you know, yeast is a living thing and it, it morphs and modifies and, they basically could isolate off the foam of these batches that were so coming out so delicious that this yeast was something new and it, it is recorded as being born in. This brewery. So in the show notes, I’m actually going to put a picture of the plaque that is on the wall of the Moromi room at the Suwa Brewery where it is recognized that number seven yeast is was born so,

John Puma: 8:01
is, that is a really fun story. I have to say, I really liked that. I love the idea that, that happens that way. I think these days it’s probably a lot more, Done in my mind. I feel like it’s done in the lab, right? Uh, they’re trying to cultivate each trying to do something a certain way Uh, I like the idea that that this was something that was more or less ambient to them and they were like, wait a minute We’re on to something or or other people were like, why is this so good? Why?

Timothy Sullivan: 8:26
like,

John Puma: 8:27
are up to something. We have to check it out.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:29
I think what, well, you know, this is, this is, this was 1946. So Japan was, I’m sure struggling with recovery from the war period and I think that in the past taxes from the sale of sake were a big income source for the Japanese government. So I think that they were also looking for a way to rebound the sake industry. And as we know from this post war period, To about 1974, it was nothing but gangbusters growth for the sake industry. And 1974 is like the high point. So, this is the beginning of that recovery, the post war period. And they were nationally looking like, how can we make sake better? How can we revitalize the industry? So, I’m sure that’s the background for discovering this new yeast and distributing it very widely. And that’s another thing I wanted to say about this is that number seven yeast is the most used yeast in the sake industry.

John Puma: 9:28
remember seeing that once and I was so surprised because when I think of common yeast in, you know, in, in 2023, I always think of like number nine. That’s like the thing that pops into my head. Cause everybody wants that kind of that little ginjo kick that it gives and things like that. but I did not realize that number seven is still so big and such a big deal.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:48
Yeah, it’s widely distributed. It’s super reliable. It’s been around for so long, and it is the workhorse of the premium sake industry. So you’re going to find it. A majority of breweries in Japan are using number seven.

John Puma: 10:06
Very cool. I like that. I like that.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:09
So the number seven yeast story is huge. and We were saying a moment ago how this is this, rebirth of the sake industry and consumption’s growing, the Japanese economy is recovering, it has this miracle recovery during this post war period, um Miyasaka Jozo responded by building a second facility to grow their production capacity. Their Suwa Brewery is their original, beautiful, old brewery, and they needed more space, they needed more production capacity. So they found a site that is away from the Suwa Brewery, and it’s in Fujimi. The unique thing about this is it is at an elevation of a thousand meters, so it’s up, it’s up in the mountains. I think I’ve read it’s the high, it’s the highest elevation sake brewery in the world. I think that’s true. I’m not sure, but I’ve heard that.

John Puma: 11:16
Do we know why, or is this like an Everest thing where it’s like, because it was there, like, I don’t like, why would you build your sake brewery? A thousand meters in the, that’s a lot of meters, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:26
Yes, well, I do know the answer to this because I just read it. The answer is that the master brewer at the time, lived there. Or he was born there or from there or something. So there was a connection to the master brewer. And that’s how they found that plot of land. And I think the drive from one brewery to the other is half an hour or 45 minutes. It’s like a relatively Short drive, but it is very high up in the elevation and it has, uh, all those considerations when you’re brewing at a high elevation. But I think that’s just a fun little factoid that they have one brewery, Lake Suwa, and another one way up in the nearby mountains.

John Puma: 12:10
That’s interesting. Now, For everybody at home, if you, if you have ever tried to flex in some way at your, place of work to get something, uh, done the way you wanted to, bear in mind that we now have a bar that you have to meet and it is having your, having your place of work build an office a thousand meters, uh, in the mountains, because you’re from there.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:30
Have you ever been to, uh, Miyasaka Jozo? Oh,

John Puma: 12:35
No, I have not it’s something we’re trying to trying to work out for the future though I had some some friends that live in in the area around Lake Suwa So it would be nice to to see them to see the brewery the area looks really beautiful There’s a lot of onsens on the on the lakefront So it definitely seems like a really relaxing place to visit It also, it looks like there’s a bunch of sake breweries, like, kind of in a row, uh, in that area, so that seems like a, like a good reason to get over

Timothy Sullivan: 13:05
Yeah, there are a number of breweries in the area, but Masumi is really the big kahuna in that, in that region. And That has a lot to do with the current Miyasaka family that’s running things. So the president is Naotaka Miyasaka, and his lovely wife, Kumi, is also working at the brewery. She runs Cella Masumi, which is like the most exquisite gift shop you will ever visit at a sake brewery.

John Puma: 13:34
Really?

Timothy Sullivan: 13:35
The goods that she has curated there are just amazing. Textiles, sake cups, glassware. It’s just all so beautiful. And the son, Mr. and Mrs. Miyasaka’s son, Katsuhiko, he’s working at the brewery as well. And has a,, many years of experience working there and has input on, uh, the current lineup. And I also want to mention our buddy Keith Norum. Who’s a long time ambassador for Masumi and travels the world. Uh, we have to have him on the show separately for sure.

John Puma: 14:08
definitely.

Timothy Sullivan: 14:08
And he is a advocate and ambassador for Masumi and all of them are so welcoming and so nice. So if you get a chance to visit, definitely highly, highly recommended.

John Puma: 14:19
Yeah, I was, fortunate enough back in 2020, I got to go to a, an event that, Katsuhiko was doing in Tokyo. Uh, which was an English language event a lot about. The new direction that the brewery was going to be going into. So can we talk a little bit about, that and, and focus on what’s new for them? What, what’s the new thing they’re doing?

Timothy Sullivan: 14:43
Yeah, that all started in 2019, and I think Katsuhiko wanted to suggest to the company to kind of redesign and reboot a little bit of the branding and return to the company roots of number 7. So before 2019, they were using a number of different yeasts, and I think what was suggested was that they produce all their sake only with their proprietary strain of number 7. So that’s what they’ve done since 2019. And And the other thing is that they’ve redesigned all their labels, um, which is a beautiful new redesign and they’re all cohesive, different colors, but they have the same kind of brushstroke circle design. And you can visit sakerevolution. com to see our show notes and see some of the photos of the bottles and the labels, but they made it all cohesive and they use this very abstract and beautiful kind of brush, brushstroke circle to represent the. I assume the mirror and, kind of bringing it all together and unifying it and getting back to their roots in a way, wouldn’t you say?

John Puma: 15:55
yeah, I think it’s really interesting. I. It’s fun to see a brewery go through like a really big rebranding like this. I can imagine though it must have been really challenging for the Toji and for the other brewers to make this switch. You’ve been working with these other yeast for so long and then you’ve got to, you know, try to replicate the sake you’ve been making but switch up the yeast. It’s got to be a big challenge for them.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:22
Hmm. Yeah. Well, maybe when we get Keith on the show someday, he can tell us what went down behind the scenes, but we can only speculate. Uh, but I think it makes a lot of sense. Like if if that’s what your brewery is known for, that you’re the birthplace of number seven yeast, it really does make perfect sense that you would really hang your hat on that and make that the foundation of all your products. So it does make a lot of sense.

John Puma: 16:49
Yeah, now, when I was at that event, Katsuhiko san was expressing a little bit about why, he wanted to do this, and he feels that, he feels that a lot of the time sake’s become lost in the shuffle, and they, they kind of taste a little similar, and he felt like the fact that that number seven was discovered in their brewery. It’s something that really distinguishes them. And he wanted to focus on that. He wanted to do to, to say, this is what makes our brewery different from all of the other ones. We’re going to use this yeast and we’re going to focus on it. We’re going to be the best at making, um, number seven, yeast sake. And. he feels like there’s a little bit too much, uh, sameness going on. He wanted to be different. And I thought that was really interesting. Uh, What do you

Timothy Sullivan: 17:33
I think it’s really smart, you know, you have to play to your strengths in branding. And I think that’s You know, when I asked you, what’s the cliff notes, what, what are the highlights of this brand? Like you, you knew as a sake fan, you knew off the top of your head that number seven was, was associated with them. So I think it makes a lot of sense for them to, really highlight that. And I, I’m sure it was a transition for them internally, but now that they’re out the other end of it, um, it’s something that kind of ties all their sakes together. And that makes for a really strong brand story.

John Puma: 18:09
Cool. Well, fortunately, we’ve got a bottle of one of their, newly, refreshed designs. and this is the Masumi Shiro. Junmai ginjo that we’re going to be tasting today. This label is, let me tell you, this label is classy looking. It is very nice. It is very elegant. It is, the logo, which, which Tim, mentioned earlier, almost looks like a reflection, or so we think it may be that mirror of truth. Perhaps, is it’s white on white. But it’s a little bit raised so you can still see it. It’s a different texture than the rest of the bottle. Again, very elegant looking, very nice. Uh, and then your writing is generally in like a light gray. So everything looks very subtle and purposeful. Like I said, very, it looks very premium to me. That’s like the vibe that I get off of this bottle. What do you think?

Timothy Sullivan: 18:59
beautiful, very elegant. Totally

John Puma: 19:01
yeah. All right.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:04
this sake is called shiro, and what does that mean in English?

John Puma: 19:07
It means white, so they’re leaning in with this label.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:09
Yes, so white label and the sake means white, and I looked on their website and they had a little description. I don’t know what this means exactly, but, um, they said that Shiro is named for a soft white cloth made from tree bark that has the same light and buoyant character.

John Puma: 19:31
Hmm.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:32
I guess it’s named after a fabric of some kind, but there wasn’t any more information than that. And, um, they also said that Shiro is their session sake. So let’s look at why that might be the case. Do you want to give us the stats for, Masumi Shiro?

John Puma: 19:49
I will preface though, the English brand name is sake matinee. the rice variety being used here is actually, we’ve got two of them. We’ve got a Miyama Nishiki and Yamada Nishiki. The yeast of course is the Masumi proprietary number seven. it is brewed using the Sokujo method. So very modern. And, that rice is polished down to 55 percent of its original size. And so this is a Junmai Ginjo, if I didn’t mention it earlier. one thing that’s interesting about this, it’s relatively low alcohol. This is a 12 percent alcohol sake, so a little bit, a little bit on the lower

Timothy Sullivan: 20:23
Aha. Okay.

John Puma: 20:24
Yeah, uh, the acidity is 1. 5 and the sake meter value, that measure of your dryness, the sweetness is a negative three.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:33
All right. Well that alcohol percentage is jumping out to me. So when they say this is their session sake or their sip-able sake, you can enjoy throughout the evening, that is what we’re zeroing in on. So it’s a lower alcohol sake. That’s really key I think, for this particular one. And as you mentioned, it has that number seven proprietary yeast, which is their house yeast. Super historic.

John Puma: 20:59
I was actually going to ask you what a session sake was. I had never heard the term before and I’m glad you went into that.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:04
Doesn’t, doesn’t that come from the beer world? Like a session beer is a beer

John Puma: 21:08
be. I don’t drink a lot of beer.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:09
well, we’re educating all around people.

John Puma: 21:13
this is great. So session sake. So let’s let’s open it up and get it in the glass.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:20
All right, we have our Masumi Shiro Junmai Ginjo poured.

John Puma: 21:35
Mm hmm.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:35
Let’s give it. It looks very clear. I’m going to give it a smell.

John Puma: 21:40
Yes, it is.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:44
Mmm. To me, it smells like peaches.

John Puma: 21:47
Yeah, peaches and um, and like. Almost like a really mild honeydew.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:53
Mmm.

John Puma: 21:54
Like very subtle, like not, you know, not beating you over the head with it. This is not the, this is not the, ginjoka until you get a nosebleed sake. This is a very light one.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:02
Yes. Well, just looking at the stats, knowing that it’s 12 percent alcohol, that, Leads me to think it’s going to be just a milder impression across the board.

John Puma: 22:12
Well, let’s find out.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:13
All right. Let’s give it, let’s give it a taste.

John Puma: 22:17
That’s smooth.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:18
Hmm.

John Puma: 22:20
That was the first, the first thing that popped into my head. I was like, Ooh, this is, it made me think of, browner beverages that you would think about the smoothness when you’re taking them in. This is very smooth.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:29
Yeah. It’s, it’s overall for me, it’s kind of soft in the texture and it’s not. Um, wimpy in any way, like the acidity is 1. 5, which is like right in the middle of our usual zone. So the acidity is there enough to give it some structure and, just has a wonderful soft fruitiness that spreads across the palate when you sip on it. But overall, light, mild, easy drinking, and soft. That’s how, that’s what I would say in a nutshell.

John Puma: 23:02
Yeah, I think a hundred percent. And, you know, you mentioned that this is, this is their sake for, for exactly that situation. And I get it. Like, it’s totally, this is easy drinking. This is something you can accidentally, oh my goodness, where’d the bottle go? That kind of thing.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:19
Yeah, but overall, the. The flavors tend to lean just a touch on the sweet side and a touch on the fruity side. And there’s, there’s the hint of acidity that comes through that kind of saves the day from it being too sweet. And then the finish just kind of, is really soft and gentle and kind of just, uh, flutters away on you. right.

John Puma: 23:48
I get what you’re saying there. I like that. descriptor. Yeah, this is a little, this one’s a little bit challenging for me to describe when I taste it, to be completely honest, because it is really subtle, but you know, there, there’s, there’s a bit going on here and it’s, it’s a little bit different from your typical sake, right? I mean, there is a, you know, there it’s very light and smooth, but there’s, um, there’s a deceptive amount going on, I think. Like if you’re paying attention, it really, like you point out that sweetness is there and that acidity and that they play really nicely together. I don’t know. This is really

Timothy Sullivan: 24:30
yeah, the import label says this sake is ideal for lunchtime sake sipping. Hashtag, hashtag day drinking.

John Puma: 24:42
No, they don’t say hashtag day drinking,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:43
I do.

John Puma: 24:44
Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:45
added that part, yes.

John Puma: 24:48
Yeah. Um,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:49
know, we need more sake for lunchtime sake sipping, I

John Puma: 24:52
Oh, well, you know.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:53
This is a tragically underserved community.

John Puma: 24:59
Absolutely, absolutely, I agree. And, you know, with a lot of alcohol, you can go back to work and, you know, maybe be productive. Yeah, that’s nice. That’s really good.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:09
I think beer people listening that we’re saying like 12 percent is like a easy sipping lunchtime sake, light as a feather, I think that’s a pretty hardcore beer.

John Puma: 25:22
talking about?

Timothy Sullivan: 25:24
Yes. Well, okay. So what are, what are we having for lunch? I’m I’m down with drinking this with lunch, but what are we going to order for

John Puma: 25:34
so I have to tell you, I, I have had this, this particular bottle with dinner, not with lunch. Uh, and I had it with, um, with sushi, with nigiri, and it was perfect. It was absolutely flawless. It was a wonderful pairing. So that’s going to be my, that’s going to be my way in is I think you should have this with sushi. Yeah. Mmm.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:02
any, any sweetness in like a soy sauce or something like that. And, uh, that could be nice. I would like to have this for lunch with like a Caesar salad. I think that would be really great.

John Puma: 26:14
Leaning into that lunch

Timothy Sullivan: 26:15
Yes, I’m leaning into lunch. Hashtag day drinking, and I think a Caesar salad with chicken, maybe? That would be really great.

John Puma: 26:26
think that would work really nicely, actually. Yeah. I gotta start opening up my lunch sake pairing ideas now. Or rather, my lunch sake pairing options.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:39
Yeah, I’m gonna have to start checking your thermos, whatever you bring to, to work with you.

John Puma: 26:45
Sir. What are you implying?

Timothy Sullivan: 26:48
be Masumi Shiro.

John Puma: 26:52
Could be.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:52
Yeah. So what’s our overall impression of Masumi Shiro and The brand story. Well, I’m going to go first. I know I asked the question, but I’m just going to jump right in. I think the brand story is really compelling. Like there’s so much history and some really historical stuff going on. And the thing that strikes me the most is that the current generation and the next generation are growing in a new direction and creating a, a new space for their brand and their sake to grow. So I think that’s awesome. Yeah.

John Puma: 27:28
I agree. I think that change is important. You need to change his growth, right? and if you don’t grow, you don’t change you. You can stagnate. I really like Well, Katsuhiko’s, thoughts are on the future of the brewery. And he, sees a way forward and he, he knows what he wants to do and he’s, and he’s acting on it. And I think that’s like. I think that’s really nice. I think that’s cool. Uh, I think a lot of times people come into a situation like this and you don’t want to mess with anything, right? Uh, and I think that in his, in his mind he’s got a lot of things he wants to do and he’s getting started early and he sees a future for the brewery that’s like very focused and very direct and he’s, he’s going for it. He’s got a vision. That’s what I’m trying to say. He’s got a vision.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:11
Awesome. Yeah, I totally agree. And it was so awesome and so lucky that you got to go to that event in English. Like, how awesome is that?

John Puma: 28:20
Definitely a very, um, unusual opportunity, but I’m really glad that we decided to go to it.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:26
Yeah. Well, I think that Masumi is going to have a lot of great stuff coming up in the future. We really have to keep our eye on this brand. And I’m so happy we got to talk about them today.

John Puma: 28:41
Absolutely. huh. It

Timothy Sullivan: 28:43
was so great to taste with you. Thanks for Hashtag day drinking with me today and, uh, love this Masumi Shiro Junmai Ginjo, fabulous. I want to thank our listeners again so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, we hope that you learned a little bit about Masumi and we’ll give their brand a try. A special hello and thank you to our patrons. Thank you guys so much. Now, if you would like to support Sake Revolution and these shows are interesting to you, please visit our Patreon. That’s at Patreon.com/SakeRevolution, where you can learn more about signing up and supporting the show.

John Puma: 29:21
and if you liked what we had to say today and you want to give us your thoughts, you can reach out to us and contact us at Feedback@SakeRevolution.Com. We’re always excited to hear from you. Uh, you can also reach out to sake revolution on Instagram and other social media outlets out there. Not doing the, we’re not doing the Tik Tok thing yet, right Tim?

Timothy Sullivan: 29:45
No, not yet.

John Puma: 29:46
No. No. Okay. So no TikTok guys. No TikTok. Next time? Maybe, probably not. Okay. So please raise a glass. Remember to keep drinking sake and Kanpai!