Episode 137 Show Notes

Episode 137. One of the most famous sweet treats to come out of Japan in recent years are the seasonal and sometimes funky-flavored Nestle KitKats. It seems that for every season or any reason there is an exclusive, limited edition KitKat flavor. To celebrate Valentine’s Day, we thought it might be fun to pair some unusually-flavored Japanese KitKats with some absolutely unique sakes. Along the way Timothy and John discuss the different ways that Valentine’s Day is celebrated over in Japan vs. here in the States… “Obligation Chocolate” anyone? Let’s see if these KitKat pairings will break our hearts – or help us find true sake love. Join us! #SakeRevolution

Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 01:09 Valentines Day In Japan

Feb 14th if Valentine’s day in Japan, but the traditions are a bit different than in the U.S. Feb 14th is usually the day that women traditionally give the men in their lives gifts of candy or chocolate. Men are off the hook… until one month later: on March 14, Japan celebrates White Day, when men return the favor and gift chocolate back to all the ladies who gave chocolate to them.

There are several categories of gift giving:

Giri-choco: This is “obligation” chocolate. Usually given to bosses, co-workers, male acquaintances and/or some family members. Some companies forbid giri-choco gifts as it can be a burden on the gift giver.

Honmei-choco: This is the “true love” type of chocolate. Given to one’s serious love interest, spouse, boyfriend or significant other.

Tomo-choco: This is “friends” Chocolate. Given from ladies to their female friends on Valentine’s day.

Jibun-choco: This is chocolate “for myself”. Everyone deserves a treat.

Skip to: 12:05 Sake Introduction and Tasting: Tamagawa Time Machine and Amabuki Pink Lady

Tamagawa Time Machine

Alcohol: 14.5%
Classification: Junmai, Kimoto
Prefecture: Kyoto
Rice Type: Kitanishiki
Seimaibuai: 88%
Acidity: 3.0
Brewery: Kinoshita Shuzo
SMV: -45.0
Importer/Distributor: World Sake Imports (USA)

View on UrbanSake.com

Amabuki Gin no Kurenai “Pink Lady” Junmai

Brewery: Amabuki Shuzo
Alcohol: 16.5%
Classification: Junmai
Prefecture: Saga
Importer/Distributor: Mutual Trading (USA)
Rice Type: Saga no Hana
Seimaibuai: 55%
Yeast: Hana Kobo (Flower Yeast) – Strawberry
Acidity: 1.6
Sake Name English: Pink Lady
SMV: +2.0

View on UrbanSake.com

Purchase on TippsySake.com: Amabuki Gin no Kurenai “Pink Lady” Junmai
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.

Skip to:18:16 KitKat Pairing

Otona no Amasa White
This KitKat Adult Sweetness White is made with finely crushed black biscuits mixed in with creamy white chocolate and sandwiched between chocolate wafers!
The Japanese name for this KitKat is “Otona no Amasa” which means ‘sweetness for adults’!

Flan Flavor
Flan is a custard-flavored pudding with caramel sauce. If you’re a pudding fan or if you love the dessert “Flan”, this may be a good KitKat for you.

Apple Cinnamon
Savor the apple cinnamon flavor of these chocolate wafers! Each wafer is layered with apple-flavored cream and coated in apple cinnamon chocolate. Halloween special

Marugoto Cacao 72% Dark Choclate
Each piece is generously coated with chocolate made from 72% level cacao nibs that are roasted and finely crushed — giving this a nutty texture and rich bittersweet taste!

Skip to: 30:48 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

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Episode 137 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s very first sake podcast and I am your host, John Puma. Uh, you may see some of my adventures over on the Sake Notes, but I’m also the administrator at the internet sake discord and the lead mod at Reddits r slash sake community

Timothy Sullivan: 0:41
and I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 0:57
So Tim, what’s going on this week,

Timothy Sullivan: 1:00
you know, John, I think love is in the air It’s mid-February. You know what that means,

John Puma: 1:06
It means that the price of flowers is greatly inflated

Timothy Sullivan: 1:09
well it is Valentine’s Day coming up.

John Puma: 1:13
Yes, that

Timothy Sullivan: 1:14
that day. We all love to hate

John Puma: 1:16
Yeah, I mean, I don’t, I honestly, I don’t dislike it. I just, it’s like so transparently like a, a fake commercial thing, but at the same time, it’s nice to be able to tell your loved ones that you love them.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:28
Yeah, it’s great. Have you ever been in Japan for Valentine’s Day?

John Puma: 1:32
Actually, Tim, once, one time I happened to be, uh, in Japan on February the 14th, uh, in 2020.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:40
Alright. Well you, you probably know then that Valentine’s Day in Japan is a little different than it is here. do you wanna explain. What you understand about Valentine’s Day in Japan versus here?

John Puma: 1:54
yes. Yes. Well, I had heard that it was a bit different. I didn’t really experience the difference being that I was there with my wife, so I didn’t have, Japanese women, giving me the gift of chocolate, which is apparently the vibe there.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:08
It’s more than a vibe. It’s a rule.

John Puma: 2:10
It’s a rule. Oh my goodness. yeah. So, my understanding though is that there’s a couple of different ways this can go down, depending on the woman’s relationship with you. How in depth is your knowledge of this sort of thing?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:23
I lived in Japan a few different times, and I was there for Valentine’s Day and I was the recipient of. Chocolate. The, the key difference between Japan and the US is on February 14th. In Japan, women are expected to give men chocolate, which is kind of different from the way we do things here uh, so it, that’s a little bit of a difference that women are supposed to be gifting on Valentine’s Day, but the men do not get off Scott free. Right.

John Puma: 2:56
No, no, I don’t. I’ve, I’ve heard, I’ve heard of this

Timothy Sullivan: 3:00
Yeah, they have a day in March, March 14th, one month later called White Day, and men are expected to reciprocate. And anyone who gave them chocolate, they have to give chocolate back.

John Puma: 3:13
Oh, and it’s specifically the people who gave you chocolate.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:15
Yes. If you don’t reciprocate, that’s a kind of a dis That is, that is not, not nice.

John Puma: 3:22
that’s, messed up. I guess it’s kind of like a consolidated version of the thing they did in grade school where you’d give Valentine’s to the other people in your class, and sometimes they didn’t give you one back. And I was like, oh, that

Timothy Sullivan: 3:32

John Puma: 3:33
Hurtful. Yes. It, it really is. It’s rough. It’s rough to be left out,

Timothy Sullivan: 3:37
there’s different grades of giving for women on Valentine’s Day. The most common, and I think the most hated is called Giri. Most Hated. Yes, it’s called giri Choco,

John Puma: 3:51
giri choco. Oh, okay. So, so Choco I’m assuming is the chocolate. What’s the giri

Timothy Sullivan: 3:57
giri means obligation. So it’s, it’s an obligation. Chocolate. This is, this is chocolate that women would give to their bosses, male friends, anyone. They feel kind of obligated to work colleagues, and it’s not from the heart, so to speak.

John Puma: 4:18
no, it doesn’t sound like it would be anything with obligation in it. Is, is inherently not heart related.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:25
Yeah. Then there’s honmei, honmei choco, which is, that’s kind of true love chocolate. That’s kind of chocolates that are often handmade. And they’re for your significant other boyfriend, husband.

John Puma: 4:40

Timothy Sullivan: 4:41
That’s a big

John Puma: 4:42
trend so, if you give your significant other, perhaps obligation, chocolate level chocolate, that’s sort of a dis also

Timothy Sullivan: 4:48
I don’t know. We’re really getting in the weeds here. uh, there’s also tomo, choco tomo. tomodachi means friends. So if you want to give your female friend chocolate as as just a nice gift you can do. Tomo, Choco. So that’s between friends.

John Puma: 5:05

Timothy Sullivan: 5:06
Yeah, and I was actually the recipient of giri Choco when I lived in Japan,

John Puma: 5:13
Oh wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:14
I lived in rural Japan. This is when I was staying in yamaguchi, and I went to the same 7-Eleven almost daily. It was the only place within walking distance for me to buy food, I lived there for a month and I was in this

John Puma: 5:29
We’re gonna to dig into that in another episode. Tim, I needed to know more about you living off of 7-Eleven Food.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:35
it was not the best, but, uh, I was going there every day, every day, every day. And then on February 14th, I was checking out with my food, and the female convenience store worker, probably 20 years old, handed me a Valentine’s Day chocolate. And I thought it was so sweet and, uh, The thing is, I left before March 14th, so I could not reciprocate, so she’s probably still mad about it.

John Puma: 6:09
So did you know about the custom ahead of time or were like when she handed you this chocolate were you were like, Hey, wait a minute, lady, I’m spoken for

Timothy Sullivan: 6:16
No, I did not know about the custom. I had no idea what was going on, why she was giving me chocolate, but it was definitely giri Choco for sure. Obligation chocolate. I was probably their best customer. Yeah. So, uh,

John Puma: 6:35
well, you know,

Timothy Sullivan: 6:38
so when I think of Valentine’s Day in Japan, I always think of that rural Yamaguchi seven 11

John Puma: 6:45
So that’s, that’s all of them though. We’ve got, we’ve got our giri for. For the obligation

Timothy Sullivan: 6:51

John Puma: 6:52
we got our

Timothy Sullivan: 6:52

John Puma: 6:53
for the, um, significant other, uh, we’ve got the tomo, for your tomos For your friends. And is that it?

Timothy Sullivan: 7:02
Well, there’s one more, which is my favorite.

John Puma: 7:04
Oh, okay. I’m ready.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:05
jibun choko, and that’s buying chocolate For yourself,

John Puma: 7:09
Oh, still it’s, it’s Treat Yourself

Timothy Sullivan: 7:12
Treat. Treat yourself

John Puma: 7:15
All right. That sounds like fun. I, I like, I like treating my, I, I do that when it’s not Valentine’s Day

Timothy Sullivan: 7:22
Me too. It’s pretty much every day for me.

John Puma: 7:24

Timothy Sullivan: 7:25
Every every day is a jibun, Choco for me Now there there is a

John Puma: 7:35
lots of things.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:37
so there is a particular kind of chocolate in Japan that is very popular that a lot of people associate with Japans. When you think of Japan, you think of. You think of Sumo, you think of Hello Kitty and what else?

John Puma: 7:52
uh, kit kats.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:54
Kit. kats. That’s

John Puma: 7:55
I feel like, I feel like the answer was supposed to be kit kats. I had other things, but I was kinda like, wait a minute. Clearly this is a setup. No.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:01
The answer is not Ninja. It’s Kit kats.

John Puma: 8:03
uh, But yeah, no, uh, kit kats are, bizarrely huge there, I wanna say.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:10
Oh my God. You see them everywhere. And the thing is, the flavors are so crazy, aren’t they?

John Puma: 8:18
I mean, you know, for us, I, I imagine for them these are completely normal. But yeah, I, I think that, they are interesting flavors. I wanna say a few years ago, I don’t think they do it anymore, but a few years ago there were, there were a couple of sake flavors, which was a lot of fun. honestly, they tasted like white chocolate, but they smell like sake, which, you know, kind of gets you, gets you in the mood,

Timothy Sullivan: 8:38
Yeah. Their sake flavored kit Kat came out in 2016 and I was desperate to get my hands on them. I remember I went on a trip to Japan and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to try these. And you’re right, they tasted like chemically white chocolate, but they had 0.8% alcohol in them. So there was just like a little bit of alcohol and they, they were reminiscent of sake, wouldn’t you say?

John Puma: 9:08
Yeah. Especially that aroma was like, it was such a really good, like ginjo aroma. You open up the little package, you’re like, whoa, this doesn’t belong in chocolate. I don’t understand It was really interesting. It was fun. but yeah, and then you taste it. It’s just like, no, this is kind of white chocolate.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:24
Yeah. So they have all these wild varieties of flavors. And do you know why Kit Kats became so popular? It’s kind of like they won the marketing lottery in Japan.

John Puma: 9:36
um, that sounds good, but how, how did they win the marketing lottery?

Timothy Sullivan: 9:39
Well, there’s this, there’s a, a set phrase in Japanese “kitto katsu” it kind of sounds like

John Puma: 9:46
kiito-katto” Yes. and

Timothy Sullivan: 9:49
Kitto Katsu Means you will surely win. And it’s a, it’s a saying of encouragement that you can give to someone. And it’s often used when people are gonna be taking exams. So what happened is people started sending Kit kats to their friends and people taking exams, whether it was college entrance exams or different things like that. And if you pick up any Kit Kat and look at the bottom, In Japanese Kit Kat, there’s this grid space for you to write a message, and these are meant to be gifted, and you usually gift them to people who are taking exams or up against some challenge and, and

John Puma: 10:31

Timothy Sullivan: 10:33
which sounds like

John Puma: 10:37
Well, it, it, I, when you said like I was thinking of like katsu, like, like katsu curry or or like, you know, chicken katsu, pork katsu. Uh, so that’s interesting and, and very fortuitous for the very fortuitous nestle

Timothy Sullivan: 10:55

John Puma: 10:58
a happy coincidence that I’m sure has worked out nicely for them.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:02
Yes. Well, for today, John, will you be my Valentine?

John Puma: 11:07
For the moment. Yes. I think, I think, and I don’t think, uh, this is, this is, uh, Tomo Choko. This is not giri-choco

Timothy Sullivan: 11:13
this is Tomo Choco.

John Puma: 11:14
Yes, definitely Tomo. Choco.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:16
So I received a wonderful selection of Off the Wall Kit kat Flavors from my sister and I shared some with John. So John and I both have a selection of crazy kit kats in front of us and for Valentine’s Day to celebrate the spirit of Tomo Choko We’re going to be tasting crazy kit kats along with our sake.

John Puma: 11:43
when I said I wanted to get more into pairing, this is not what I had in mind.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:47
this is not part of your resolution,

John Puma: 11:50
No, I don’t think so. I mean, it’s fun. We’re gonna have a good time with it, but, but this is gonna be a little weird, I think. I think it’s gonna be a little funky.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:57
You and I both picked different sakes. To use in our KitKat pairing

John Puma: 12:03
Mm-hmm. Yes. our kit kat pairing Cat

Timothy Sullivan: 12:05
so before we open any of the KitKats, why don’t we introduce our sakes? Um, you can tell me what you’ve selected and let’s taste them on their own first before we do any pairing. How about that?

John Puma: 12:17
Sure. So since, uh, in my mind, I think having kit kats and sake is a little funky. A little, a little, little out there, a little different. I decided to, uh, use a sake that is itself quite a bit funky. it is from our friends over at Kinoshita Shuzo over in Kyoto, they make the Tamagawa brand of, of ambient house yeast sakes. So lots of funky stuff. And this one is called, Tamagawa Time Machine. it is classified as a Junmai, although you often see it, in big letters. After that, they’ll say This is a dessert sake. it’s a Kimoto, like many of their, varieties, it uses kitanishiki, Rice polished down to 88%. You heard that right? 88%. the A B V is 11 to 12, the acidity is 3.2, and you might think that’s really high, and I will tell you that it is just going to be a drop in the bucket next to the sake meter value. That measure of dry to sweet of. Negative 45 minus 45. Now, I’ve also seen other numbers. I’ve seen 38. I’ve seen things in the eighties. but I think the most common number I’ve seen was minus 45. So this is gonna be a funky sake to go with a funky pairing.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:41
So you’re just, you’re just rolling the dice here,

John Puma: 13:43
I’m roll. Yes, exactly. I, I go big or go home,

Timothy Sullivan: 13:47
Alright. Well I picked out what I thought was a valentinesy kind of sake. I’m gonna go with the Amabuki brand and we’ve had them on our show before. They specialize in flower yeast or hana kobo. And the one that I’ve picked out for today is Jin No Kurenai Junmai that is often called the Pink Lady It’s again, it’s from Amabuki Shuzo, and it is a Junmai grade sake polished down to 55%, and they’re using a rice that is Akamai or one of these black or red rices, the ancient grains. It’s called Saga no Hana.

John Puma: 14:30

Timothy Sullivan: 14:31
we are again in Saga Prefecture on Kyushu Island. The flower yeast that they use is the strawberry flower yeast acidity of 1.6 and the SMVs plus two. So this has a real tart sweet thing going on that’s really fun. And the most amazing thing about the sake I picked is that. Saga no Hana rice. That red rice gives it a rose color, so it’s very apropo for Valentine’s Day

John Puma: 15:03
yeah, that’s, that is some Valentine’s Day looking sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:06
Okay, well let’s get these sakes in the glass and taste them on their own first before we get to our pairing.

John Puma: 15:12
Sure thing. so I’ve got my time machine in the glass and, uh, let’s see. It is, very caramel. That is, that is the word. It looks like liquid caramel

Timothy Sullivan: 15:31
Yeah, it looks very syrupy

John Puma: 15:33
Oh, yes, it is. It looks almost like whiskey, like it’s very very, very dark. and then for aroma. Hmm. Wow. There is a little bit of that, that whiskey nose that I do like on, on these older sakes and a lot of that, caramel sweetness that’s in there. Cocoa, this might go well with some of the more chocolatey Kit Kats with that nose. And now I’m gonna give it a little bit of a taste. Hmm. Yeah. This is a very dessert sake. Sake. And I would love to pour this over some ice cream one day. This is wonderful. It’s got your, your, cocoa notes, little coffee notes, caramel, like it’s all there. It’s It’s, a little mound of sweetness also. It’s really, fantastic. This is really good. It’s not my wheelhouse and I had to go outside my wheelhouse to find something I was gonna. Go with chocolates, but this is spectacular. I’m really happy with this.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:29
All right. Well, I have the Pink Lady, the Amabuki Gin no Kurenai Junmai, let’s give that a smell. Hmm. It has a little bit of a fruity aroma to it, a little bit of sharpness there, but just, um, brightness and,

John Puma: 16:49

Timothy Sullivan: 16:51
um, a smell like watermelon, a little bit like watermelon. So

John Puma: 16:55
that’s, that’s a good flavor to have in a

Timothy Sullivan: 16:58
sake it’s a really interesting aromatic. I’m gonna give it a taste now. Hmm. It’s really delicious. It has kind of a sweet, tart thing going on, so there’s sweetness upfront and it finishes with some acidity and a little bit of tartness. Really engaging, but kind of a different overall mouthfeel and profile from a standard amabuki sake. So the unique rice that they’re using really comes across on the palate and it kind of doesn’t compute with other flavors from standard sake rices. So it has such an engaging color. Like looking at it in the, normally when you look at sake in the glass, it’s like, Looks like water and there’s not much to see, but this is like such a beautiful blush color. It’s really, really nice. All right, so we have our sakes chosen, and you and I have a random selection of different flavors, so I’m gonna let you go first. You have. Smokey rich dessert, Koshu style sake from Tamagawa, and you have a selection of Kit Kat in front of you. So which one do you want to pick to pair first?

John Puma: 18:16
so, I saw this and I needed to immediately pick it out. this is the, KitKat, which gets, is getting translated in Google as adult sweetness,

Timothy Sullivan: 18:32
adult sweetness.

John Puma: 18:33
Now, uh, this is the white. So, uh, it’s, I’m assuming it’s gonna be a white chocolate, I’m assuming adult sweetness is probably a little bit less sweet. It’s probably a little bit more, like, a little more mellow, probably a little more, maybe a little more coco. I don’t know. We’re gonna find out. This is, this is what pops into my head. So when I open it up, it is in fact white chocolate. But there is, some bits. Chunks of something in the chocolates and dark colored chunks in the chocolate. I’m very curious as to what that’s gonna translate into. it smells a lot like white chocolate though, It is. Got that, that really, really sweet white chocolate aroma. and I’m gonna have a quick bite here. All right, syrup. This is delicious. I could’ve next time just get me a whole box of this. This is great. Uh, really, really nice. It is, it tastes a lot more mellow than the aroma, if you like white chocolate, it’s got a little bit of white chocolate in there and there’s a good, like, a good bit of. Traditional cocoa counterbalancing it. That’s really, really nice. It’s, it’s not overly sweet. It makes you think it’s gonna be overly sweet, and then surprises you by being very subtle.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:47
Okay. John, I was curious about the sweetness for adults. And this is a line of Kit Kats geared towards adults, and the one you have is white chocolate with finely crushed black biscuits or cookies. creamy white chocolate, and it’s made with milk from Hokkaido Japan.

John Puma: 20:06
Oh, that’s lovely. And so those chunks then are the cookie. Oh my God. This is why I love this so much. It’s really good.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:11
Well, how is it, how is it pairing with the sake

John Puma: 20:16
Well, we’re gonna find out in a moment. Let’s see. Well, the sake mellows out the kit cat even more because the sake is so big. but then when I go back to the sake, it’s got a whole new level of excitement to it, this is a good pairing. This is

Timothy Sullivan: 20:33

John Puma: 20:34
I am a fan of this pairing.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:36
All right.

John Puma: 20:37
This is an a plus pairing for me, Tim we need to find out what you’ve got

Timothy Sullivan: 20:41
So adult sweetness,

John Puma: 20:43
Yeah. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Adult sweetness of the white white chocolate

Timothy Sullivan: 20:49
a plus.

John Puma: 20:50
A plus with with tamagawa time machine.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:53

John Puma: 20:55

Timothy Sullivan: 20:55
Okay. I’m looking at my selection. and I have certain one that my attention is drawn to, and I have Kit Kat that is flan flavored,

John Puma: 21:07
Flan. Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:09
Flan is like, you know, a caramel pudding

John Puma: 21:12
Yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:14
and I like flan, so I’m gonna try flan with the amabuki.

John Puma: 21:20

Timothy Sullivan: 21:23
Okay. Opening up. It looks very much like white chocolate. Oh my gosh. It smells like caramel flan, like,

John Puma: 21:35
Oh, wow. Really

Timothy Sullivan: 21:36
my gosh,

John Puma: 21:38
Wow. So, so kind of like with the sake, they’re nailing the

Timothy Sullivan: 21:41
the aroma is on point.

John Puma: 21:42
Hmm, that’s great.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:44
So now we’re gonna taste it. Hmm

John Puma: 21:48
Mm-hmm. what do you think?

Timothy Sullivan: 21:52
hmm. I’m getting more caramel than flan, but.

John Puma: 21:55

Timothy Sullivan: 21:56
But it tastes very good. I just can’t escape the kind of chemically overtones to it. it. doesn’t taste like natural flan. It tastes a little, little bit like white chocolate and caramel, and it’s very good, but it tastes a little chemically. But we’re gonna pair it with our rose sake here. Let me give it a sip.

John Puma: 22:19
I’m very curious how this is gonna go down,

Timothy Sullivan: 22:23
Hm. Not the best pairing I’ve ever had.

John Puma: 22:26
Oh, so you wanna give this one a grade?

Timothy Sullivan: 22:30
Maybe a B minus

John Puma: 22:32
Alright, a B minus. Now what? What impact did the sake have on the KitKat and vice versa?

Timothy Sullivan: 22:37
Yeah. The kit cat is so, so sweet

John Puma: 22:40

Timothy Sullivan: 22:41
It, it drained all the sweetness out of the sake and made it taste a little sharp. So the alcohol really came forward a little more. Um, so this wasn’t an A+ pairing flan, kit, kat, and the Yeah, but we’re gonna do another round,

John Puma: 22:57
Yeah, I, I, got a feeling the flan would, would go really well with this Tamagwa though,

Timothy Sullivan: 23:02
yes. I think the flan would go really well with yours. So, uh, So, John, back to you. We should do another one. This is too much

John Puma: 23:10
fun I should, I should. So, I’m gonna go a little bit crazy here, I think. and I’m going to have the apple cinnamon. I think this is gonna be something that of my comfort zone,

Timothy Sullivan: 23:24
guess what?

John Puma: 23:25
you have an apple cinnamon

Timothy Sullivan: 23:26
cinnamon too.

John Puma: 23:28
Oh. This is how we’re gonna go. We’re gonna both do the apple cinnamon and pair a sakes.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:33
we can’t pass up the opportunity if we both have it so.

John Puma: 23:36
so let’s, let’s get the, let’s get this apple cinnamon opened up and put it in the glass. Wait a minute. No, we don’t put this in the glass. All right, so, whoa. All right. So I got it open and the first thing I got assaulted with was the aroma of cinnamon and apples.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:51
Oh my

John Puma: 23:52
it’s it’s also like,

Timothy Sullivan: 23:53
It smells like a Yankee

John Puma: 23:54
so, it’s like pow

Timothy Sullivan: 23:56
It smells like a Yankee candle.

John Puma: 23:59
it does.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:00
my God, that’s so

John Puma: 24:01
strong It is. Um, it’s like kind of off white, kind of

Timothy Sullivan: 24:03
Yeah, it’s like a grayish purpleish gray color.

John Puma: 24:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so let’s, uh, let’s get this,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:10

John Puma: 24:10
let’s get a bite of.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:12

John Puma: 24:13
You know, tim,

Timothy Sullivan: 24:14
not bad

John Puma: 24:16
this kind of tastes like apple and cinnamon the finish is, the cinnamon really settles into that finish. I was, I am very impressed by this. I’m surprised that I

Timothy Sullivan: 24:26
like this. It has really distinct apple pie vibes, doesn’t it?

John Puma: 24:31
Yeah, as long as you like a lot of cinnamon in your apple pie but there’s a lot of ci I do like cinnamon, so this is like a, it’s saving it for me cause I’m not a big apple

Timothy Sullivan: 24:40
this is an apple pie that fell into the cinnamon bowl and

John Puma: 24:44
Mm. If, if I were making an apple pie, that’s what I would do. So this works out really nicely. Um, so now let’s let’s pair it with our respective sakes.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:53
Yes. Hmm. You know, for me it actually is okay, because this is not as sweet. This apple cinnamon is more of a spicy flavor, and it brings out the subtle sweetness that’s in my sake, and it balances quite well actually. So I’m much more pleased with this than the flan. How about you?

John Puma: 25:16
Well, unfortunately, I think I’ve got the B minus, B plus pairing this time. It, it’s, it’s not bad. It works, but it doesn’t. Sing like the, that last one, the, the adult Sweetness White. It was just, it felt like it was made for the sake. It was so perfect. And this, I think the spice really just didn’t, it just doesn’t go well. The cinnamon clashes a bit with the, the caramel and the cocoa of the time machine. they’re not in sync. Uh, again, they’re not bad together. It’s just not, not. But this was a, a fun little experiment, Tim, I have to say. This has been exciting.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:55
Okay, John. Well, I’m gonna do one more here. I have a marugoto kakao This is a 72% Kakao, and I love chocolate so much. So I’m gonna open this up and see. Ooh,

John Puma: 26:16

Timothy Sullivan: 26:17
okay, so it’s a dark chocolate. Oh my gosh. It smells like when you’re making chocolate chip cookies and you have those semi sweet or dark chocolate chips. It smells like dark chocolate. So this is for dark chocolate lovers. I think this would pair fantastically with your sake, but I’m gonna give it a

John Puma: 26:39
taste yeah, it’s getting a little hot in here, Tim. That sounds really good.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:44
Hmm. Okay. It tastes just like a 73% cacao chocolate bar from a chocolate shop, so

John Puma: 26:55

Timothy Sullivan: 26:55

John Puma: 26:56
But with, but with like the wafers

Timothy Sullivan: 26:57
wafers in the middle.

John Puma: 26:59
Oh, that’s, that sounds really good.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:02
Hmm. It pairs really well with this sake.

John Puma: 27:05
Fantastic. I was a little worried. I thought that maybe it would be more something that would go with mine, but, uh, I’m glad to hear

Timothy Sullivan: 27:12
I think it’s the, it’s the, sorry. It’s It’s the, um, it’s the lack of sweetness. I think the ones that are not as sweet pair really well with this sake. The, the first one I had, the flan that was overly sugary. It just didn’t blend well. But this is a bitter style semi sweet or you know, dark chocolate and. That bitterness brings out the sweetness in my sake, and balances it really well.

John Puma: 27:38
Nice. Oh, this is gonna lead to a spinoff show. Tim, where are gonna We doing kit kat Revolution

Timothy Sullivan: 27:43
oh, I did read that there were over 300 flavors of Kit Kat in Japan.

John Puma: 27:49
I believe it

Timothy Sullivan: 27:50

John Puma: 27:51
hundred percent

Timothy Sullivan: 27:53
So. So what did you think, does this leave you feeling hopeful about Valentine’s Day?

John Puma: 27:59
I in Japan, you mean? Um, I, if I get to collect a bunch of different KitKats, I’m going to Japan every February. ,uh, I have to say, like, my, my takeaway from this has been number one, I really enjoy the time machine a lot more than I thought I would. And number two. Adult sweetness.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:16
I told Sweetness yes.

John Puma: 28:18
Adult sweetness is my jam, apparently. so good. It was fantastic. And you know what, the, by itself, the Apple and Cinnamon kit kat was much better than I thought it was gonna be. I was a little trepidatious about that one, but, uh, but that was really, really tasty. But the adult sweetness of the King

Timothy Sullivan: 28:37
Yeah. My takeaway is that some flavors, I think, to achieve some strange, unusual flavors in these candies, they have to resort to chemicals and sometimes they do taste chemically. But other ones tasted very pure and very much like what they were. The cinnamon was really cinnamon and apple and didn’t really taste that chemically to me.

John Puma: 29:00
Mm. Yeah, I, I think like, you know, it’s with all these different flavors, you’re gonna have some situations where they get to it real naturally and real easily. And other times when they have to, they have to cheat a little bit. but it worked out like these are, you know, the, the ones we tasted tonight, I think worked out pretty well.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:18
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. And I, I know you have a few extra flavors. What are the other, what are some of the other flavors you have there that we’re

John Puma: 29:26
All right, so I had shortlisted a few, and not necessarily because I was really excited about them. There is one I’m very excited about that I’m holding for myself, but I’ll tell you about that in a minute. I took out the chocolate orange flavor. I loathe chocolate covered oranges. So I figured I would take out the kick at and just confront my, fears but then ended up going a different route. Uh, we got pumpkin pie

Timothy Sullivan: 29:50

John Puma: 29:51
and cheesecake. Those are also on my, on my shortlist. But the one I’m saving for myself is called For coffee break. And it’s meant to be paired with coffee. tomorrow I’m going to have this with my morning coffee and hopefully be a very smiley, happy morning person. Normally, I’m not a very happy morning person.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:16
That’s good. Well, I’m glad you have a few extra to string into the, to your other beverages as well, outside

John Puma: 30:22
yes. yes. And and Tim, thank you so much for, for giving me these, this was, uh, very, very nice of you. Your, your, tomo Choco, is very much

Timothy Sullivan: 30:31
apprecitated Thank you so much. All right. Well, John, this was so much fun. Who doesn’t love Kit Kat? Who doesn’t love sake? This is a, this is a win-win proposition here. This show

John Puma: 30:44
two. The two great tastes that sometimes tastes great together.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:48
Yes, absolutely. So great to taste with you and I also want to say hello and thank you to our patrons. If you’d like to support, our show, you can visit our patreon Patreon.com/SakeRevolution

John Puma: 31:04
and in addition to, uh, kit kats and stuff like that. you know that you can get, uh, swag from our shop sake, revolution swag for the important people in your life. You can do giri Swag, honmei swag, Tomo swag, and of course jibun swag.

Timothy Sullivan: 31:23

John Puma: 31:24
right now it’s mostly t-shirts and stickers, but uh, and down the line we’re gonna have some, some new and interesting items. So keep a lookout on that store page. You can find it at SakeRevolution.com.

Timothy Sullivan: 31:35
and you can also visit SakeRevolution.com to read our show notes. We’ll have all the information on our sakes and on our Kit Kats, and also you can see a full transcript of each and every episode. So be sure to check out our website too.

John Puma: 31:50
So Without any further ado, please grab a Kit Kat Uh, remember to pair your Kit Kats with sake and Kampai.