Episode 170 Show Notes
Episode 170. We were so happy to sit down to chat and sip sake with our friend Ryan Mellinger, the General Manager of the Joto Sake imports portfolio at Kobrand. Ryan explains to us, in an easy to understand way, the intricacies of the complex “three tier system” of alcohol distribution that we have in the States and all that goes into getting fresh and delicious sake all the way from Japan to local stores and restaurants for us to enjoy. Speaking of delicious sake, we also taste an intriguing selection from Joto’s portfolio – the Chikurin Fukamari Junmai, which is a sake blended with previous year’s batches to give it added depth and dimension. Listen in as we explore all things Joto Sake with Ryan! #SakeRevolution
Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
Skip to: 01:09 Interview: Ryan Mellinger
Ryan Mellinger is the General Manager of Joto Sake at Kobrand Corporation. Born and raised in NYC, Ryan she got her start working in culinary at some of New York’s beloved kitchens. Through this window Ryan learned of the nuance and history of Japanese Sake and went on to work for lead artisanal Sake importer Joto Sake in 2015. Nine years later Ryan has grown into her role now overseeing the National Sake Sales Team and managing a diverse and extensive craft sake portfolio. Ryan is an expert communicator of Sake’s beauty and versatility, no matter what the occasion, cuisine, or venue. Ryan is certified in WSET Sake L3 and a Sake Scholar.
Founded in 2005, Joto Sake is one of the leading artisanal sake portfolios in the U.S. Joto is Japanese for “highest level” and describes the makers of our sake and our aspirations as their importer. We represent ten multi-generational, family-owned, jizake (local) breweries. These breweries are located throughout Japan, producing sake in small batches with indigenous rice varieties, offering flavors and styles ideal for a range of cuisines. Our passion for breweries that have rich and wonderful histories makes them fun to learn about and explore. We hope you enjoy!
Skip to: 19:25 Sake Tasting: Chikurin Fumamari Junmai
Chikurin Fukamari Junmai
BREWERY: Marumoto Shuzo
ACIDITY: 1.4
REGION: Okayama
GRADE: Junmai
SEMAIBUAI: 60%
NIHONSHUDO: +2
RICE: Homegrown Yamada Nishiki
YEAST: #9
PRESSING: Yabuta
Brand: Chikurin
Importer/Distributor: Joto
About Marumoto Shuzo
Fukamari Junmai is made in a unique solera-like aging process developed by 6th generation President and Toji, Niichiro Marumoto. Each bottle is a blend of new and 3-8 years’ aged sake. This process adds incredible depth and flavor to the finished sake. Inspired by deep field long-lasting observations of space, Marumoto san explores how time and history reveal new flavors and traits in the sake.
Skip to: 31:58 Show Closing
This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!
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Episode 170 Transcript
John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody. And welcome to podcast. I’m your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. Also the administrator over at the Friendly Neighborhood Internet Sake Discord and Reddit’s r slash sake community.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:35
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.
John Puma: 0:53
Hello, Tim. How are you doing
Timothy Sullivan: 0:54
I’m doing good.
John Puma: 0:56
I could not help, but notice that the zoom is the windows in the zoom are a little smaller than usual because there’s a third person here.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:03
We have a special guest today. So
John Puma: 1:05
Aha. That’s what it was. And who do we have here?
Timothy Sullivan: 1:09
I’m so excited to welcome Ryan Mellinger. She is a General manager of Joto Sake over at Kobrant. We’re going to learn a lot more about what she does in sake sales and distribution. And we’re so excited to have Ryan here today to talk to us about sake. Welcome Ryan.
Ryan Mellinger: 1:27
Hi, thank you for having me, John and Tim. It’s a pleasure.
John Puma: 1:33
Yeah. Tim and I have known Ryan for a very long time. And it’s, it’s nice to have you on the show and get into the, I don’t know if we’ve ever gotten into the distribution part of the sake world on the show before. So this is for people listening at home, remember this is very U. S. centric. This is how it’s done here. Your local mileage may vary. Also every state has different laws too, which I’m sure we’ll get into a little bit, let’s just dive right in, you get into all of this? How do you tell us about your background? How do you get into sake?
Ryan Mellinger: 2:02
A very windy road. I’m very, excited to have this as my job, selling sake every day. but it’s definitely not something I thought I would be doing, spending every day doing uh, when I was in college or whatnot, but, I’m, born and raised New Yorker, grew up in New York City in downtown Manhattan,
John Puma: 2:20
Ooh.
Ryan Mellinger: 2:21
surrounded by amazing restaurants and food culture and people from all walks of life. my parents were big, foodies, I guess wasn’t the word to use back then, they exposed my brother and I to a lot of things growing up. I always tell people, you know, in New York City, when I was growing up, there’s pizza place on every corner and there’s a sushi restaurant. I grew up eating Japanese food, of course. My tastes have evolved much since then. But so food and restaurant culture has been in my life, from a young age. And then, I started working in service jobs in high school. I went to college in New York. I guess I just couldn’t leave. And during that time I started, for work I would, I would do catering gigs and, started to become more interested in the back of house and cooking. And when I graduated with a degree from photography, I I didn’t want to sit in front of a computer all day, and I liked the pace and the energy of the kitchen, so I should try working in restaurants. And I had actually had built a little catering business of my own, of clients that were calling me back and, decided to just dive in. So I worked in restaurants in New York City, for a few years, very difficult work, especially back then as a young woman. I’m sure it still is. And hopefully getting better. And then, I started working for my friend’s company who, makes bean to bar chocolate out of downtown Brooklyn. And that’s where I started to really make friends and learn about other businesses in Red Hook, Brooklyn that were on the alcohol side of the industry, on the beverage side. And it was really exciting. I was doing a lot of events with them to help promote Red Hook and get people to come visit, pairing chocolate with whiskey, chocolate with beer, chocolate with wine, and, all the while I was learning about fermentation alcohol and, by the way, chocolate is also fermented. Some people don’t know that. I was learning about sake just through my own love of Japanese food and I was then I was actively searching to find work on the beverage side of the business, and Joto sake was hiring, and I had had sake on my own, was drinking it on my own, going to Japanese restaurants, but I never sold it. So I really blindly said, Hey, I really love sake. I want to learn more. I would like to try to sell it for a living. And Henry Seidel at the time and Midori Nakazawa gave me a shot. And that was 10 years ago.
John Puma: 4:49
I don’t know.
Ryan Mellinger: 4:50
So pretty windy road, but following my love for food and drink led me to sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:58
Let me ask you this. John and I have talked about this so many times, but did you have one? particular experience you remember that was your aha moment or like, Oh my God, sake is a thing. Tell us what was your aha
John Puma: 5:09
yes,
Ryan Mellinger: 5:10
You You know, I remember it vividly because one of my best friends is like my dining partner. We always go out to good restaurants together and we have dates doing that. And he and I I didn’t have much money in college like anyone and would afford to go out to the good restaurants during restaurant week, and really took advantage of that. And I remember going to EN Japanese Brasserie we were really excited to go. I heard all about how they make homemade tofu and I was sitting at the bar. I remember exactly the seat I was in and I’d never seen a sake list like they had. It was incredible, a little daunting, but we were very excited to try. And I had this amazing glass. I don’t know what it was. That was so long ago, but I remember it being umami and a little bit smoky and just soft and creamy. And I was like This is great. What have we been drinking? Because also in New York City, there, in the really cheap days there’s like all these places that would just give you like a free shot of some probably box sake, or so I was like used to that kind of variety at the time. My first experience with premium quality sake was eye opening.
John Puma: 6:21
Cool. That’s awesome. Uh, I, I, it’s a shame that you don’t know what it was though, but I’m glad you know exactly actually probably more
Ryan Mellinger: 6:28
a chance to go to En, it’s a very impressive restaurant, really beautiful, and just, and still going strong now. That was like 15 years ago, I think, or maybe longer. Yeah,
John Puma: 6:39
Yeah,
Ryan Mellinger: 6:40
yes, they are.
John Puma: 6:42
they’re own tofu. know, You went through this, uh, you went through this this whole thing and now you’re You went down this windy road and now you’re a uh, Sake division at Kobrand uh, tell us, um, you know. Tell us a don’t you know, about Joto? what’s what’s Joto If
Ryan Mellinger: 6:55
So Joto
John Puma: 6:55
is like, what’s Joto They
Ryan Mellinger: 6:56
the
John Puma: 6:56
So what’s Joto
Ryan Mellinger: 6:58
comprised of about 45 different sake. They’re all from 10 different family owned breweries in Japan. So we’re an importing sake company. The company was actually founded in 2005 by Henry Seidel Shout out to Henry who had the vision to create a select sake portfolio that was Joto. Joto means highest quality. In practice, that meant having a very focused, curated portfolio of breweries that had a story to tell with great philosophies, histories unique rice strains, yeast, really bringing, great quality sake at a range of price points to the United States, and then In addition to that, having a really strong focus on the education side of it, and the accessibility side, and really making bridging that gap between the distance, and 2005 was a very different sake environment I didn’t get involved Henry didn’t hire me until 2014, so it had already been 10 years sake building from the ground up in New York City. And obviously, Tim, you’re part of that and John. So that’s what Joto means. So I joined the company in 2014 and then in 2016, we joined Kobrand Wine and Spirits, which is another family owned company much like our breweries that was founded in 1944. So they have also a very impressive history. And and legacy. Now, as I said, 10 years later, I am head of the sake division at Kobrand, so managing our sake portfolio as general manager. So I do a lot of different things. I could share with you some of them if they’re of interest. Yeah, so
John Puma: 8:39
yeah, let’s, uh, give us a few highlights, I
Ryan Mellinger: 8:41
overseas. With them and our ordering teams here, I manage inventory and pricing, coordinating orders and projections to the future of our needs across the country. I develop and manage our sales and marketing budgets, which sets our priorities for the years. I also coordinate annual trips to Japan with our sales teams and vice versa, coordinate trips for our brewers to come visit us in the States. So depending on where you are around the country, hopefully there will be events that you can meet some of our producers. They do come annually. I’m also in charge of research and development for our portfolio and creating all the promotional materials. And then last but not least, I manage our national sake sales teams, which currently consists of three amazing people each based in California, New York, and Florida.
Timothy Sullivan: 9:31
Now is Joto sake an importer, a distributor? And could you explain a little bit about that landscape, how importing and distribution works a bit?
Ryan Mellinger: 9:41
Yes. Oh my gosh. It’s a very layered and sometimes frustrating system that the United States has us work with. But for those not familiar the United States has a three tier regulatory structure for alcohol sales. Uh, At the top of the tier, the supply chain are importers, of products from abroad or, a domestic winery or brewery who make the alcohol locally. From there, the producer or the importer, which is what we do we must sell the goods into state level distributors. That’s the second tier. There’s many distributors across the country some have multi state distribution, some are just in one state there’s pros and cons to all sorts of big and small, depending on what your business needs. And every state has very nitty gritty different alcohol laws, making it even more difficult to navigate. And then at the third tier, you have the retail stores, the retailers, the restaurants, the bars that the distributor has to sell into. So as a, you person walking down the street and you want to go buy, beer, a wine, a sake, you have to buy from a retailer or a restaurant. You cannot purchase from the second tier distributor or the importer directly. So there are exceptions for, as we know like domestic breweries or producers to sell direct to consumer locally, such as Kato Sake Works in Brooklyn, Kura. You can go up and order a sake on tap, but as an importer, I can’t sell you bottle directly. It’s a very complicated, system that requires a lot of experience and knowledge to navigate successfully. So you can imagine some of the challenges that come with importing something like sake, which is from all the way around the world and making sure that inventory is consistent and fresh. And that the people selling at all levels are educated and knowledgeable about what they have in their portfolio to sell their restaurants and retailers. So that’s a large part of our, our job. But, our team, while we’re four people, We work directly with every level of this tier, so we’re often walking into stores with our distributor teammates and making those high level presentations about our sakes for their menus or their shelves. And, we also host events and tastings directly with those retailers and restaurant partners, so it’s not hard to find or engage with us. But the, all the in between is very complex and spidery, webby. Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan: 12:13
Yes. And all these different tiers and all this is a legacy of the repeal of prohibition and all these laws were set up in the 1930s. And it’s just a complicated web to navigate, especially with 50 different states, 50 sets of laws. So my heart goes out to you. It’s a lot to navigate, but you’re in the, importing tier. And, but you, as you just said, you interface with all the different levels. So you’re repping those sakes to distributors. You also go to probably retail stores and do tastings and things like that. So you’re probably really in touch with all those different levels of sales and distribution.
Ryan Mellinger: 12:55
yeah. I think working in sales is one of the most rewarding and difficult experiences. You really learn a lot. You’re on the ground, you’re doing the hard work, you’re talking to every different person. Yeah. knowledge level interest level, sometimes getting in front of people who are giving you all the time in the world, sometimes people who have no time, right? And you’re making, trying to make a case no matter what the day is. Or, getting people excited about sake and making it accessible. So yeah it is it is. Very interesting, and I think very rewarding to have worked on all, with all those different levels of the, of not just the three tier system, but also across the country, because the needs in New York are very different from the needs in Ohio, and very different from what Texas likes and what Miami’s drinking.
John Puma: 13:43
Yeah. One thing I think is interesting. So you guys, have like relatively small group of breweries that you work with, but you have like really yeah, I would say pretty deep relationships with them. So how do you guys select those breweries?
Ryan Mellinger: 13:57
Yeah, I mean, since 2005, we’re still only working with 10 suppliers, or 10 breweries. We have a range of sakes from them, so we cover a lot of ground. But the legacy that Henry built and that we have continued at Kobrand is one that is and he had obvious help from also other amazing people who worked for Joto and were my mentors as well. But the guiding principle is Keeping it, cohesive, representing a range of regions, styles, price points but really, you know, working with, we’re working with people. Obviously the sake has to be delicious and consistent and survive the journey across from Japan to the States and, that, that whole journey and still be consistently delicious and fresh. Which is a major feat of the brewers, but they have to know how to do that. So once we’ve gotten past that point, and we know that the sake is delicious and that they have really interesting story that makes it fun to talk about or relatable or intriguing to To customers. Then it’s about, the people. It’s do we jive? Are we going to be good partners? Cause we’re long term partners. And that’s really, in our mind, the only way to build brands, that are unknown here. Some of our breweries are more well known than others. Some of them are really, the epitome of jizake and really just selling locally in their region and are rarely found outside of that area. It’s our job as their importer to make sure that we’re building the recognition correctly and really educating people correctly on what makes this brewery special. So we don’t have um, sake breweries. That are from the same area. We try and not duplicate any region or any style too much. So, In thinking about how to develop the portfolio, it’s really what holes do we want to fill? What stories are we missing? What styles of sake? And, or, yeah, what can we do to stay relevant for what the restaurants and the retailers and the consumers are drinking now are?
John Puma: 15:50
Nice, nice.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:51
So you told us before about your aha moments when you discovered sake and began enjoying it and it led to your career. Love that. I’m curious, just personally, what are some of your favorite styles of sake? Now you don’t have to give us any name brands, but what type of sake do you like to drink on your own time and how do you enjoy them?
Ryan Mellinger: 16:14
I’m going to give me an answer you probably don’t like, but I don’t have one style that I stick to and it really has morphed throughout the years, you know, when I first started versus what I drink now, having drunk sake for so many years frequently but it really depends on the day or the weather. Or what I’m eating. Today is like 95 degrees in New York City. I want something that’s going to feel crisp and bright and a little acidity. Later on I could change my mind and want something that’s really fruity and a little creamy. I think I really don’t discriminate in terms of styles, but I think I tend to not, when I’m just going at home for a bottle or a glass, like Junmai Ginjos I really like pasteurized sake. I know it’s Namazake and Junmai Daiginjo all the rage and super appreciated right now, but I like a glass of that. Sometimes I find they can be overpowering on the palate or aromatically so if I’m Planning to have multiple glasses of something. It’s usually a Junmai or Junmai ginjo, something bright and a little bit of acidity and really balanced and pretty. I like something that has long lasting flavor too. Something that has a nice finish that I can think about. I don’t like sake that are unbalanced or feel too much in one direction or too short of a finish. I just, I appreciate a high quality sake. Now I sound like a real sake snob.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:42
No, not at all.
Ryan Mellinger: 17:44
It’s my job. What can I say?
John Puma: 17:46
it’s your, it is your job though. Now having said that we. As is what we do on this show, what We’re going to be tasting some high quality sake. And this is, so one thing I’ve noticed about Joto is that you guys don’t introduce new products willy nilly, like the portfolio is very it’s, you guys have what you have you focus on it. You think about, bringing in something new is a big
Ryan Mellinger: 18:06
hmm.
John Puma: 18:07
And this is new. So I’m excited because I personally have never tasted this before. Tim, I don’t know if you have.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:13
Ryan, is it new or is it returning
John Puma: 18:16
Oh, wait a minute. Hold on a second.
Ryan Mellinger: 18:20
Plot twist.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:22
I’m a hashtag sake senior. So I re I remember back into the olden days and this sake has been imported before. Is that right?
Ryan Mellinger: 18:32
Yes. Yeah, it was before my time Yes. Yes, it was over 10 years ago this sake called Chikurin Fukamari, it’s a Junmai. We import two other Chikurin sakes their Junmai Ginjo and their Nama Junmai Ginjo. And this had been imported and they stopped importing. I don’t think it was as well received, or um, like I said, a lot has changed in the sake atmosphere in the United States in the last 10 years. really fit a hole for us that we’ve been getting asked for more and more in the last four years or so
John Puma: 19:13
Nice.
Ryan Mellinger: 19:14
certainly. So it’s a reintroduction.
John Puma: 19:16
Aha. maybe when it was here, like world wasn’t ready. America was not yet ready for this sake and now is the time for it to come back and hopefully people are ready
Ryan Mellinger: 19:25
Marumoto brewery who makes the sake is such a dear partner of ours and makes incredible sake and it’s delicious and so many people love it but I think now there’s more of a knowledge base and a desire for it. More of this umami and high acidity styles of sake. So this
John Puma: 19:46
now.
Ryan Mellinger: 19:47
yeah. And part of what that’s all about is about the method in which he bottles the sake. I don’t know if you want to go through some of the specs or
John Puma: 19:56
Yeah. Yeah let’s talk a little bit about that there. All right, so the specs of the Chikurin Fukamari Junm ai. This is as Ryan mentioned from uh, Zo over in Ohkayama this is um, using Yamada Nishiki despite being in Okayama, they’re using Yamada Nishiki on the sake. It’s milled down to 60 percent of its original size. The sake meter value is plus two and the acidity is 1. 4. Oh, and then we’ve got yeast information for this too. How nice. Yeast number nine.
Ryan Mellinger: 20:26
and the Yamada Nishiki I mentioned is homegrown. They’re nicknamed a farmer’s brewery because the farmers who grow the rice are also the brewers who make the sake. So he grows all of his own Yamada Nishiki rice.
John Puma: 20:39
Excellent.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:40
Yeah. So this again is the Chikurin Fukamari. Junmai. And this word Fukumari, Ryan, what does that signify?
Ryan Mellinger: 20:50
So this depth or deepness or richness is all about the layers of the sake. So Marumoto San with this sake is playing with aging in a way. So more flavors are revealed. Over time with drinking, there’s a more roundness that you’ll pick up. So the method in which this is done is, every brewing year, he makes a fresh batch of the Fukumari recipe. And he then takes that fresh sake and blends it with last year’s sake and two years ago, sake that have been stored as nama and negative five degrees Celsius.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:31
Oh my God.
John Puma: 21:32
Okay.
Ryan Mellinger: 21:34
that’s what makes the consistent. batch of sake, and that’s actually how the Karuyaka Junmai Ginjo is made. Then he takes sake that’s been bottled from anywhere from three to eight years ago with that same process and blends it into the bottle before pasteurizing. So this bottle of Fukumari has anywhere from three to eight years aged sake in it, but actually, It’s like a solaris system in that you really can’t tell how long because there’s always a little bit being added into the next batch and he’s storing that for later. Very fascinating process. That’s I’d never heard of before. Completely, I believe, completely proprietary to him. Is adding this depth and layers to the sake.
John Puma: 22:19
I’ve definitely never heard of something like that before. Tim, what about you?
Timothy Sullivan: 22:23
No, that sounds so exciting. And it makes me want to get the sake in the glass right away. So I think we should do that.
John Puma: 22:32
We have the technology. let’s go ahead and put some of that in a glass. Remember typically on sake revolution, we use wine glasses here. You’ve got one at home. Don’t worry. Too much about finding the right vessel.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:52
All right. So when I look at this, Ryan, in the glass, it looks like there is a some hint of yellow color to this sake and that would be totally in line with the fact that this is a blend of several years, up to eight years.
Ryan Mellinger: 23:07
Yes yeah, that typically is indicative of a little bit of added storage time or also a low filtration. So yes, it’s certainly not a water white, just a little bit of like a straw tint.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:24
Let’s give it a smell.
John Puma: 23:27
And there, you can definitely tell this is something that has some age on it.
Ryan Mellinger: 23:32
Yeah, I get a lot of the tertiary sort of components, a little bit of there’s a lot of umami, a little bit of pickled almost there’s like a slight saltiness, very appealing, not over the top, still very pretty, and I think balanced really well in the glass. I’m also drinking mine just slightly chilled. It’s been almost room temperature right now,
John Puma: 23:52
yeah. I think mine is very similar.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:55
Yeah, for me, the aroma is a little bit like almost hints, some hints of mochi rice on the rice side, and then a little bit of hay or straw. There’s like a A note like that in there for me, but definitely umami as well.
John Puma: 24:11
Yeah, the umami is to me like the first thing I’m noticing and I’m like oh, this is going to be very umami laden.
Ryan Mellinger: 24:17
Should we taste?
Timothy Sullivan: 24:18
Yeah.
John Puma: 24:19
think the way I think we do.
Timothy Sullivan: 24:21
There, there are layers here. This is layered and deep. It’s aptly named. For
Ryan Mellinger: 24:29
We try.
Timothy Sullivan: 24:32
Yeah.
Ryan Mellinger: 24:34
some of the tasting notes that we, our team talked about. There’s a little bit of almost like a dried apricot, but also a little bit of fresh kind of a little stone fruit, but it’s not like a bright stone fruit. A little more richer. There’s a little bit of like woodsiness, like a little cedar kind of quality, like you can taste the koji making. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very creamy and has nice acidity. The alcohol is only 15%, so it’s not super high. So it makes me want to keep drinking.
John Puma: 25:06
It is. So it’s weird for me personally your umami sake is, I don’t think of things being like excessively sippable because the umami it’s it’s very you think heavier, more challenging. At least I do. But I’ve sipped this six times since we started tasting and I’m like, I keep going back and go and have another little sip and then, oh, I’ll just have another little
Ryan Mellinger: 25:25
Isn’t it umami? Like all the things that make you want to keep eating them, like cheese and all those things that are just, it’s that deliciousness, that sort of scrump, like unctuous flavor profile that makes you just want to keep having more. I think this would be a really fun pairing with a lot of different things. I have some leftover roast chicken in my fridge I will have for dinner tonight with this and probably some pita bread and I think, and some tomato actually. I think that would be like really nice. But You can have fun with sake. That’s the best part. I know you guys know. I hope the people listening know you can pair with many different things, but this certainly lends itself to, I think, things that are cooked or roasted or pickled or, yeah.
John Puma: 26:10
Yeah. I think that when we had Monica Samuels on a very long time ago, another another importer she had a very great comment that was like, don’t be precious with your sake when it comes to pairing. Just have, eat whatever, whether, experiment, have fun, be, don’t overthink it. And I thought, I always thought that was a really interesting idea. It was like, cause we, I think a lot of people do get into that headspace of we need to present this with something very, very special. Blah, blah, blah,
Ryan Mellinger: 26:32
I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that our sake industry faces in order, if our goal is to increase sake sales and education around the United States, is that we need to get people to think outside of the traditional pairings and for drinking sake.
John Puma: 26:46
absolutely. I think that’s that’s the key, is the key to to sake’s growth is getting it out of the Japanese restaurant. Nothing against the Japanese restaurants. I love them, but but getting it into places that don’t, that aren’t like, Japanese cuisine or something like that. Just having it someplace that just has, like American food is such a, a game changer, I think. And it’s the thing that, that’s that everybody’s searching for.
Ryan Mellinger: 27:06
Yeah, absolutely. If you can get tequila and, wine from all parts of the world and any place on the corner, why not sake?
John Puma: 27:16
Yeah. That’s the world I wanna live in. Yes,
Timothy Sullivan: 27:25
Ryan, I wanted to ask you if you had any stories or any anecdotes from this producer, from Marumoto san or from the Chikurin brand?
Ryan Mellinger: 27:38
Yeah. Anyone who has had the pleasure to meet Muramoto san know that he is such a gem such a lovely, endearing brewer and person. He is really multifaceted. this is in Okayama, in a very countryside region, Asakuchi, and they’re at the base of these mountains, so it’s, there’s not a lot else but farmland and rice paddies around, but he spends his time, really, he thinks a lot about it. And yeah. Sake making and what it means in more of a philosophical sense. So I know he spends a lot of time meditating and cares a lot about energy and what he puts into the sake. But then on the other side, he is also a house music dj. He is got. Blue Russian cats around the house. He goes on motorcycle rides backpacking trips in the summer when he can, when he’s not brewing sake. He has got a lot of interest outside of sake, which I think really shows in the different types of sake he makes. So the Chikurin brand is a very serious, beautiful, all estate grown sake rice and using time in different ways. So we have also namazake from them, which has no storage or aging, and the karuyaka has a little bit. And then he also is the producer of hohoshu sparkling sake. So very fun, youthful, pink and blue, bright colored sparkling sake. And he is also the brewer that makes the Joto graffiti cup that we import. So a little bit of fine dining and casual. He likes to experiment
John Puma: 29:11
that’s cool. I’m still wrapping my head around the house music DJ bit,
Timothy Sullivan: 29:14
Well,
John Puma: 29:15
that’s awesome.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:15
John, I have to ask you, do you think that I have visited this brewery in the past?
John Puma: 29:20
I probably,
Timothy Sullivan: 29:23
I
John Puma: 29:24
statistically speaking, yes,
Timothy Sullivan: 29:26
I visited Marumoto Shuzo in 2008 in October. And so that goes way, way back. And I have two quick stories about Marumoto san. I agree. He is a gem of a person. And Regarding the DJ thing, he brought me into his living room. I was there by myself and he plopped me in the middle of the couch and he said, I want to play something for you. And he put on classical music and he wheeled in these big speakers. These are like six foot tall speakers on either side of me. And he wanted me to have this experience of hearing the music from these surround sound. And he also took the time to drive me around his Brewery area and he showed me every single rice field that he maintains and they’re all separate. Some of them are super tiny, but they are all his babies. And he wanted to show me each and every one where he’s growing rice, even though they’re not connected and they’re spread around the area. And it was such dedication to the rice growing side of it, which is not usual for brewers because they usually just buy the rice. So those are. Two of my impressions from my trip way back when, but I totally agree. He’s a gem. Nothing’s changed. And these sakes are amazing that he makes.
John Puma: 30:45
That’s that. That’s awesome.
Timothy Sullivan: 30:46
This has been just fantastic to have you on Ryan. It’s been so much fun to learn about the Joto portfolio, a little bit about your background and particularly about. This Chikurin brand and the Fukamari in particular. Thank you so much for joining us. Before we say goodbye, I wanted to ask if you’d like to share any ways that our listeners can connect with you or connect with Joto online. What’s the best way to learn more about what you do?
Ryan Mellinger: 31:17
Thank you both for all the work you do in educating and making this podcast, inviting me. I love to talk about sake, so anytime. For those who would like to learn more about what we do A great way is to visit our website, jotosake. com, j o t o s a k e, and also our Instagram at jotosake, which I also manage and try to populate with fun videos right from the breweries so you can see certain processes live in action. And yeah, we can’t wait to see you or visit you in your city nearby sometime. And thanks for tuning in.
Timothy Sullivan: 31:58
Thanks again, Ryan. Thanks so much for joining us and sharing this delicious sake with us. Such a pleasure to have you today. I also want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in and joining us. We really do hope that you’re enjoying our show. Now, if you’d like to show your support for Sake Revolution, the best way to support us is to visit our community on Patreon. We’re a listener supported show. And if you’d like to join us and support Sake Revolution, please visit Patreon.com/SakeRevolution to learn more.
John Puma: 32:29
Before we go, Tim, where can people find you on the internet?
Timothy Sullivan: 32:33
Oh thank you for asking. If you’re looking to learn more about my work, you can visit urban sake.com, the website or Urban Sake on Instagram. I’m also teaching classes at the Sake Studies Center, so sake studies center.com, or sake Studies Center on Instagram, and as always, Sake Revolution,
John Puma: 32:56
Yeah, I think that’s a given one.
Timothy Sullivan: 32:57
how about you, John
John Puma: 32:59
Social media stuff is going to be for me personally, John Puma, NYC and then over at the Sake Notes where my wife and I post our sake adventures occasionally, and we have a good time doing so. On that note. Please raise your glass. Remember to keep drinking sake and Kampai.