Episode 111 Show Notes

Episode 111. What do you get when extreme sake goes mainstream? Chances are, you’re looking at a popular style known as Super Dry sake. Referred to as “cho-karakuchi” in Japanese, these boozy, ultra-dry sakes pull a full 180 to the super sweet dessert sakes we’ve tasted before. Prepare yourself for a sake that puts the alcohol aromas, flavors and finish front and center. The bracing texture of this sake style really wakes you up and might be just the right fit if a dry martini is your favorite cocktail. Super Dry sakes styles are popular with a fair amount of mainstream appeal but might they lack balance? This week John and Timothy explore to see what puts the super in super dry sake. #SakeRevolution

Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 02:44 Extreme Sake: Super Dry

Today’s sake is from NIHONKAI SHUZO
Founded in 1888, Nihonkai Shuzo is located in Hamada City in Shimane Prefecture on the west coast of Japan, literally 200m from the water. The prefecture is famous for commercial fishing. Deriving from the saying that “the sea is the spiritual home of the Japanese,” the brewery’s mission is to “brew sake that connects the hearts of the people” ever-focused on balancing delicate sweetness with finish in order to pair with seafood.

Skip to: 14:05 Sake Tasting : Kan Nihonkai Cho Karakuchi +15 Junmai Genshu

Kan Nihonkai Cho Karakuchi +15 Junmai Genshu

Brewery: Nihonkai Shuzo
Classification: Genshu, Junmai
Acidity: 1.8
Alcohol: 18.0%
Prefecture: Shimane
Seimaibuai: 60%
SMV: +15.0
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku
Brand: Kan Nihonkai (環日本海)
Importer/Distributor: Wine of Japan

View on UrbanSake.com:

Skip to: 28:58 Show Closing

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Episode 111 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello, everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s very first sake podcast, and I am your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. I’m also the guy who made the internet sake discord and on this show where I’m often surrounded by sake samurai. I am the sake otaku.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:44
And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am the sake samurai. I’m also a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 1:02
So Tim, it we’re back. It’s just you and me. It’s you and me, Tim. It’s not like these past two weeks where we’ve had these interlopers, uh, doubling up the count of people in the, in the room here. It’s actually being completely honest. It’s a little quiet. I think I might have some empty nest syndrome without having guests on the show.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:21
Yeah, we have been doing a lot of interviews lately, but there is a certain topic that has a gravitational pull we cannot escape. And that is the topic of extreme sake

John Puma: 1:35

Timothy Sullivan: 1:35
We are going in for another. Exploration of something pretty extreme, pretty wild

John Puma: 1:42
Uh, yes, extreme sake series. I enjoy making these episodes. I, I hope everybody enjoys, uh, listening to them. Uh, we get to do such interesting topics as extreme rice polishing, we’ve done extreme sweetness, Tim. We’ve done. we we’ve people who took namas and they, they aged them. They aged the nama,

Timothy Sullivan: 2:04

John Puma: 2:05

Timothy Sullivan: 2:06
Yeah, we’ve, we’ve done some pretty, pretty extreme sakes, but I think of, of all the extremes you could go to the, what we’re tackling today is probably the most desirable, I guess, of the extremes. What do you think about that?

John Puma: 2:23
Um, I, I wanna say it’s the most in my mind, at least it’s the most mainstream of the extremes.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:28

John Puma: 2:30
It is. It is the most socially acceptable

Timothy Sullivan: 2:33
that’s a really good way to put it. I love that. It’s the most socially acceptable extreme of the extremes.

John Puma: 2:40
Yeah. You want to tell the good people at home, what we’re doing

Timothy Sullivan: 2:44
we are doing super dry sakes,

John Puma: 2:47
super dry

Timothy Sullivan: 2:48
super dry.

John Puma: 2:49
that’s that, uh, that British clothing company that kanji and their logo, right?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:54
They’re not from Japan. Super dry.

John Puma: 2:56
logo, right? No they’re but they, but they use, uh, Japanese iconography to promote their product.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:05

John Puma: 3:06
so yes, um, super dry. So tell me more about super dry sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:11
Well, I think that most people have an idea of what dry means, but what do you think dry means when it comes to alcohol? I’m sure you’ve heard about dry wine

John Puma: 3:24

Timothy Sullivan: 3:25
we’ve talked about dry sake before.

John Puma: 3:28
Yeah. So, so Tim, when we talk about dry, what are, what exactly are we talking about? What is dry anyway?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:34
Well, the simplest way to give a quick definition for what dry is. It’s basically the lack of sweetness. Yeah.

John Puma: 3:44
Okay. That sounds good. So, so we’re defining it as simply lacking another quality. Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:51
absence of sweetness gives you dryness.

John Puma: 3:56

Timothy Sullivan: 3:56
People always make the joke about how can sake be dry when it’s wet. but that’s not the kind of dryness we’re

John Puma: 4:07
I’m not done with my sighing. Thank you very much. uh, no, I’ve, I’ve heard that about dry wine also. Oh, so dry. Oh, but it’s wet. Haha. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. right. But it is. As you mentioned, it is just the absence of sweet. There’s no, quality to it. Apart from that, no unique quality to it is simply, um, of, of the void of sweetness.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:35
It comes in different degrees and different amounts, but the less sweetness you have than the drier the sake is going to taste and it can express itself in a couple different ways. One is a little more alcohol flavor, and one is a little bit more acidity. So both acidity and alcohol flavors can read as dryness on the palate, but it’s a lack of sweetness. But we experience sweetness on the palate. you can also think about the finish of the sake, So you wanna look at the overall impression and how much sweetness or lack of sweetness there is, and that can give you a sense of how dry it is. Now. When I talk to people about how to envision what dryness is, if you’ve ever sipped on a martini and it has that super, uh, drying effect on your palate. That is, I think kind of the essence of what the dry impression on the palate is. I almost call it like a little bit of a pickling effect on the sides of your tongue. You know, when you have a Martin pickling. Yeah. Like a little, uh, drying out of the palate and that comes from the higher, more overt alcohol impression that you would get in a martini, but if you scale that way down and soften it a lot, I think that gets us into the zone of what a super dry sake impression might be on your palate.

John Puma: 6:05
Now, on the show every week we talk about, the, uh, SMV

Timothy Sullivan: 6:13

John Puma: 6:14
And when we talk about that, we’re trying to let people know kind of, and we’ll say why in a minute, but kind of where a sake is on the, on, you know, with regard to dryness versus sweetness. And we say kind of, because there’s a lot of other factors that way into this, apart from that’s just where it is on the sake meter value scale, but, how exactly is that sake meter value let’s feel refresher for way at home. How does that exactly work?

Timothy Sullivan: 6:42
Well, yeah, SMV, which we talk about pretty much every week when we introduce our sake, that means sake meter value. And the Japanese word for sake meter value is nihonshu-do so. You can hear either nihonshu-do or SMV or sake meter value. And this is actually a measurement of the density of

John Puma: 7:03

Timothy Sullivan: 7:04
the sake. The SMV measurement of zero on the scale is the same density as water. And then there’s plus numbers and then there’s negative numbers above and below zero. the plus numbers actually go up the scale and they indicate increasingly less dense sake. And that often reads on the palate as a dryer impression, less sugars remaining. And as you go down the scale. You get negative numbers and that indicates more density than water. And that usually indicates more residual sugars hanging around. And as you go lower things in general, tend to get sweeter.

John Puma: 7:47

Timothy Sullivan: 7:48
These are kind of broad generalizations. There’s exceptions all over the place, but if you need a rule of thumb, just to get you oriented in this higher is dryer. So plus numbers on this SMV indicate a drier and negative numbers on the SMV indicate a sweeter sake

John Puma: 8:06
Hmm, excellent. Excellent. And so we’re, we’re talking super dry today.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:13
Extreme extreme.

John Puma: 8:16
where, so where exactly do we go for our extreme? It’s like, what’s an extremely dry sake. Then. Number wise, numerically.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:25

John Puma: 8:26

Timothy Sullivan: 8:26
I did some research into how extreme we could actually get on this show. meaning. What is the highest SMV I could legally obtain in the United States

John Puma: 8:43
and, and I think that’s a very important, note, because I think we have both encountered very extreme sake overseas. That is even drier than anything that we could find in the States.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:58
Yes. So the driest SMB I could get my hands on, on this scale is a plus 15. Yeah. That’s high.

John Puma: 9:10

Timothy Sullivan: 9:11
And in Japan, I’ve had sakes that rate like a plus 20,

John Puma: 9:17
Yeah. Uh, I have also had, a sake in Japan that was a plus 20 and you know what? I really liked it.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:28
you did.

John Puma: 9:29
Um, and it surprised me because I didn’t think I would, but it was plus 20 and it was, and this was a weird moment for me when I had this, because it was fruity

Timothy Sullivan: 9:41

John Puma: 9:42
and yeah, in my mind, at the time specifically at the time I thought. Fruity and sweet are kind of hand in hand in a way like sweetness and fruitiness. I kind of associate the two. I equate the two to a certain extent, but I’m sitting there and I’m sipping on this sake and it’s nice and fruity, but then this like dry finish is extremely dry. Um, situation takes over and it, it kind of isolates the fruit in a very interesting and. Like pure way, right? It is like, it is fruit with the absence of sweetness and it was very interesting. It was a very fun sake to have

Timothy Sullivan: 10:22
Hmm. Yeah. Often in sake, when we get the impression of fruit, it’s the esters or these aroma compounds coming off the sake they’re produced by the yeast and they waft off the sake and give us the impression of maybe tropical fruits. And that can be totally divorced from the residual sugar. That is causing actual sweetness on our palate, but there’s a disconnect in our brain cuz when we bite into a mango or a strawberry or our favorite honeydew melon, you know, there’s, there’s this linked experience with sweetness and fruity aromas that we have a hard time separating ourselves from, but in sake, you can get very fruity aromas and have a drier body, not as much residual sugar. Really interesting.

John Puma: 11:12
Mm-hmm it’s very, uh, it’s a fascinating thing that I had never really experienced before. And, you know, and now I’ve experienced since with some dry sakes. again, some dry sakes are just really fruity and it’s a fun little experience to have.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:26
Yeah. Now when I’ve talked to consumers and people who are just getting started with sake, sometimes I do a somm night in a restaurant and I’ll work as a sommelier on the floor of a restaurant. I often meet people who are like. I wanna try super dry sake. Give me anything. That’s dry. Just number one. Important thing to me is dry, dry, dry, dry, dry. I hear this regularly. So why do you think that there’s this group, subset of people getting into sake that insist on dry or super dry sakes?

John Puma: 12:05
I are they like afraid of like sweetness or

Timothy Sullivan: 12:07
I think that’s the answer. Yeah. I think it’s a overreaction to maybe having had a sake that was a little too sweet for their liking and to avoid that happening again, instead of seeking out balance, they go to the opposite extreme, and they’re like, just to hedge my bets, just give me something super dry. And you and I have talked about balance a lot, right?

John Puma: 12:33

Timothy Sullivan: 12:36
Balance is so important balancing out

John Puma: 12:38
I’m trying to say that when you go super dry, you might be giving up a little bit of balance.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:46
Yes. and there may be people that just love that super dry impression, and we’re gonna taste a super dry sake today and we can, you know, have our hot take our live reaction to it. But. I think super dry all the time or without is you’re

John Puma: 13:07

Timothy Sullivan: 13:10
you’re missing out on some nuance and you’re missing out on some balance, but that may, that may be my preconceived notions coming through. Who knows, but I think you’re right. Fear of sweetness is at the root of these people who demand super dry Uber Alles, you know,

John Puma: 13:33
There it is. There it is. It’s toxic masculinity. That’s fear of sweetness.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:39
of sweetness… they demand super dry sakes because they may fear sweetness. But, uh, I think it’s time for us to put our own palates to the tests and go a little extreme. So, John, I hunted down this super dry sake. It, this is available for sale in the U.S.. Do you want to give us the rundown of this sake and let us know what we are to expect here?

John Puma: 14:05
I would love to Tim. So this is the Kan Nihonkai Cho-karakuchi. And we, we talked about karakuchi in the past. That is dry mouth there. Dry taste Kaci plus 15 Junmai. This is from nihonkai Shuzo over in Shimane Prefecture, the, um, Sake meter value or the Nihonshu-do is, as we mentioned a plus 15,

Timothy Sullivan: 14:34
Plus 15 that’s

John Puma: 14:36
plus 15, that’s our extreme right there. it is also Gohyakumangoku. Now I wanna take a quick second here and discuss that with you because, gohyakumangoku, when I think of that rice, I think of Niigata

Timothy Sullivan: 14:50

John Puma: 14:51
and also when I think. Crisp dry sake, open your fruit, but dry, nice and balanced, but a dry finish. I think of Niigata so is, is like gohyakumangoku, maybe preferred for people who wanna make a dry sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:09
I think that’s fair to say. Yeah. gohyakumangoku is known for producing lighter airier sakes, and if you’re going for dry or super dry. You don’t need all the elements that, uh, yamadanishiki is going to bring to the table. You’d bring that in. If you’re going for something more fruity or rich, and because you’re going dry and airy, you would probably lean towards this gohyakumangoku rice, which is kind of known for that Stripe of flavor.

John Puma: 15:42
Nice. Thank you. This gohyakumangoku is milled down to 60% of its original size. The acidity is a touch high at 1.8. and Tim, the alcohol percentage on this, you didn’t tell me that we were going extreme with the alcohol. It is 18%, sir.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:59
Oh, that’s not extreme.

John Puma: 16:01
oh, no, no, but it’s a higher than average. That will be our, our new series a bit higher than average coming to Sake Revolution. After we’re done with the extreme stuff, it’s slightly above average. It’s slightly below average.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:18
not too extreme.

John Puma: 16:20
yeah, no, you know, meza-meza So anyway,

Timothy Sullivan: 16:25
is, uh, I think this might be a genshu as well,

John Puma: 16:29
well, the 18% made me think it might

Timothy Sullivan: 16:31
Yeah. I think we might be be in Genshu territory for sure. So I wanna mention this word in the name of the sake, Cho C H O. So it was Cho karakuchi. Cho means very, or we often translate this as like super dry. So karakuchi is dry and Cho karakuchi is super dry

John Puma: 16:54
Ooh, Cho karakuchi. Oh, I like it. Nice. Well, I have my glass here and I have my bottle. Do you have yours?

Timothy Sullivan: 17:06
Well, I do we have to mention this bottle too,

John Puma: 17:11
It is so all right, everybody at home, let me paint you a word picture sake bottles are typically, you know, brown, maybe

Timothy Sullivan: 17:21

John Puma: 17:22
uh, summer sake could sometimes be light blue or clear. Um, this bottle is red.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:29
Fire Engine Red

John Puma: 17:31
is Fire engine It’s it’s still translucent. It’s not like, uh, matte, but it is red. It is letting you know something is up the label is predominantly kanji, but on the, on the right side where it’s telling you that it is, the cho karakuchi, it also has a giant plus 15 in, in the same font as the, as the Cho karakuchi kanji. Um, it is a, clearly this sake is celebrating how dry it is. And I think that’s a lot of fun. They’re not messing around. They want you to know you’re gonna have a good time. If you’re looking for a dry sake, Sake ah,

Timothy Sullivan: 18:13
Yes. And it does say Junmai Genshu, and it does say plus 15 on three different places on this bottle.

John Puma: 18:21
They don’t want, they don’t want anybody to have this and be like, look, you know, it’s kind of like the thing with McDonald’s and the coffee where it is like extremely hot in five places. Now somebody complained it was too dry and didn’t know, they didn’t know it was gonna be plus 15. So they put it three times on the label. That’s plus 15.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:36
Yes. And if you put a light bulb on this bottle, you’ve got a, um, like a police siren flashing light. It is bright red and ready

John Puma: 18:45
can, you can, you can, do like your Izakaya lantern with put a light in there.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:51
well, it is very striking though. You have to admit, like, if you see this bright red bottle on the shelf, it’s going to grab your attention. Don’t you. Yeah.

John Puma: 19:01
I don’t think I can like be looking at a shelf of sake and be like, I just didn’t notice it.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:05
Yes, let’s get this. kan nihonkari cho karakuchi plus 15 Junmai Genshu, let’s get this in the glass.

John Puma: 19:14

Timothy Sullivan: 19:15
Now, before we get too far into it, I have to remind our listeners that we’re kind of dealing with two things here. One is the plus 15, which is the super dry density of this sake. But as we’ve discovered, it’s also a genshu. So the alcohol percentage on its own is very high as well. So we’re gonna be balancing these two things out and seeing the interplay of the density and the alcohol. So let’s go ahead and give it a smell.

John Puma: 19:47
Mm. Hmm.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:50

John Puma: 19:51
So, um, I, I am, I am sniffing out of a, a wine glass today as I, as we often do. And I’m getting a lot of, I think we we’ve talked about like the sweet rice, the like, uh, the mochi rice a little bit, and I’m getting a lot of that. It’s very rice-y.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:13

John Puma: 20:14
Very nice. And is a little alcohol

Timothy Sullivan: 20:16
the aroma is very rice-y almost. I don’t know if you would agree. Almost a little creamy as well. Like the rice pudding smell a little bit and.

John Puma: 20:26
I’m right with that. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:27
Yeah. And there is an ethanol smell as well. So ethanol is a way word we can use to describe when you have the kind of more overt alcohol aroma on the nose. And that’s coming through a little bit here, but it’s not distracting and it’s not, it doesn’t feel like imbalanced it’s there. And when you have a super dry 18% alcohol sake, I think you’d expect there to be a little bit of the boozy aroma on the nose, but it’s not, it’s not whackadoodle out of balance. I don’t think.

John Puma: 21:02
Uh, and I like, I like how you, you jumped straight onto the calling it ethanol, so you can head me off at the past before I start referring to the aroma as boozy

Timothy Sullivan: 21:12
I wanted to throw the professional descriptor in there. Head you off at the pass. right.

John Puma: 21:19
I, sometimes Tim, I need to be saved from myself.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:23
All right. Let’s give it a taste. Oh, wow. That is dry. Oh my gosh.

John Puma: 21:35
Tame. There’s a burn.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:37
there’s a, there’s a slight burn

John Puma: 21:40

Timothy Sullivan: 21:44
it’s not unpleasant. It’s not unpleasant. Okay. This has that bracing quality to it, right?

John Puma: 21:55

Timothy Sullivan: 21:56
I feel like it might have slapped me on the cheek as well as,

John Puma: 22:02
they just challenge you to a duel I will say. Um, so we mentioned the rice aroma and it makes good on that. Like the first thing you taste is that rice and then. Gives away to that bracing

Timothy Sullivan: 22:23

John Puma: 22:24
little slap in the face. Uh um, boozy dry like B like a burn tingling, almost really nice finish, uh, long finish.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:36

John Puma: 22:37
and I always think short finish on dry sake, but this is a lingering, dry boozy finish. Ah, I did it. Didn’t I a layering dry ethanol finish. I’m sorry, Tim. I

Timothy Sullivan: 22:50
You can say boozy, this is, this is a safe space here.

John Puma: 22:52
oh, okay, good.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:55
I think John, if we’re ever gonna say boozy about a sake, I think this this might be the one where they are not gonna take too much offense to it.

John Puma: 23:02
Yeah. Yeah. I, I wouldn’t.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:07
So it’s very, this sake is, as I said, very bracing.

John Puma: 23:12

Timothy Sullivan: 23:13
And would you describe it as crisp? I don’t think it’s not crisp in the way I usually use it.

John Puma: 23:21
this sake is very far from Niigata

Timothy Sullivan: 23:25
Okay. Now we’ve established. This sake is rice-y. It is bold.

John Puma: 23:35

Timothy Sullivan: 23:36
It’s ethanol driven as Tim would say, or boozy as John Puma would say, and it has a lingering. Martini-like finish, like the finish is alcohol driven and, Really wakes you up

John Puma: 23:56
yeah. oh, alright. I’m a hundred percent with you on that. It’s I am awake.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:02

John Puma: 24:05
yes, I agree. and it’s, it is, you know, this is a fun sake and, we know we make jokes about when we do some of the extreme stuff, we may be like, oh my goodness, this is so weird, blah, blah, blah. And it. you know, it’s a little bit outside of the, the norm here, but it is, it’s, it is quite enjoyable. And, uh, I don’t know about you, but I really I want some food and I want that food to be greasy.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:31

John Puma: 24:33
I just, when I, when I’m something, this dry, I feel like I, I imagine it kinda just cutting through the oils, um, and just, just resetting my palate in a really fun way.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:44

John Puma: 24:46
That’s my thought.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:47
Yeah, it makes me think of maybe using this in a cocktail.

John Puma: 24:54
That would also, I was my, that was a thought I had earlier. Um, but then I, I couldn’t think of exactly what kind of cocktail I would use this with.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:02
Yeah. But I think greasy, greasy food or fatty fish is something that I think would pair well with this. But

John Puma: 25:12

Timothy Sullivan: 25:12
yeah, if you have someone who’s like, I only drink dry. So man, like you give them this and you can see what they’re really made of, you know,

John Puma: 25:21

Timothy Sullivan: 25:23
Yeah. This, this is a dry it’s it’s the aftertaste is like, you know, like when you have a shot of something boozy. Yes.

John Puma: 25:34
Yes, yes. In fact, yes.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:38
after you sip it, people make that face. It’s not unpleasant, but oh, this is interesting, John, you know, the word karakuchi means dry when you talk about sake, but karakuchi can also mean spicy. Yes. Right. And this is, I think the bridge between spicy and dry is a sake like this, cuz it’s almost like you sip on it and you have that reaction that makes you go, wow. Wow. Like that was spicy slash dry. I think.

John Puma: 26:27

Timothy Sullivan: 26:27
What do you think, do you think? I think, I think this is a, a bridge between those

John Puma: 26:33
I can get some of that. Yeah, I can get with that. I can feel that this is a night, it’s a fun sake to drink and talk about because there’s a lot of ways to interpret what’s going on it’s not simple by any stretch of the imagination.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:48
Well, I, I think this might be a challenge for people who are more into either sweeter or balanced sakes. And this might be a little too extreme in the dry direction, dry, spicy direction than most people would expect. That may be why it comes in the fire engine red bottle. Just to warn you, you don’t pick it up by mistake.

John Puma: 27:14
Yeah, it’s nice. I think the whole extreme series. We’re, touching on the, the outskirts, the, the, uh, the not everyday stuff. And this is a, a different one. It’s a lot of fun. I wanna say of our extreme episodes, uh, with extreme sake, this is one of the more enjoyable to just taste it’s been nice. And that might be, because again, we talked about earlier that, uh, you know, extremely dry sake is kind of a little more acceptable. It’s kind of a little more, a little bit more mainstream.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:45

John Puma: 27:47
Plus 15 might be teetering on the edge of what’s mainstream, but, um, but it is, you know, it’s a little something that’s a little bit more socially acceptable. as I mentioned earlier.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:00
Definitely. And I, I think that this, this style of sake would be the, of all the extremes we’ve tasted. This would probably be the most common style that you would come across in your everyday social situations. This dryer super dry. Really does flirt with mainstream, I think. I’m super excited to see what extreme sake we have next

John Puma: 28:26
Yeah. Uh, I, I uh, this is, again, this is a really fun series to do and. Uh, and yeah, like it’s, it’s nice to be able to try out these, these sakes that we normally in my day to day life. I don’t go very extreme, Tim. I don’t live the extreme sake sake lifestyle. Uh, typically my fridge is quite mundane. It’s not very extreme. so getting the opportunity to go a little bit extreme with you, uh, has been a lot of fun and, I can’t wait to see what you have in store for us next.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:58
Yes. And, uh, we have to reassure our listeners that, we’re not extreme sake junkies, and this is all for educational purposes. all right, John, it’s so great to taste with you again, and I’m looking forward to our next session in the studio. And until then, I also want to thank our patrons as well for supporting Sake Revolution, a big greeting, and thank you to all our patrons, your contributions, help us to produce, host and edit a sake revolution episode each and every week. If you’d like to become a patron, please visit our patron site at patreon.com/SakeRevolution.

John Puma: 29:39
And did you know there are other ways to support us such as leaving a review on apple podcasts, Spotify, podchaser, Stitcher, whatever you’re into, get the reviews out there. It really does help get the word out about the show. You can also just tell people that’s the much more direct way to get the word out about the show. You know, pour ’em a little bit of extremely dry sake. And then when they say, what is this? You’re like, well, it’s extreme sake. And I learned about it on Sake Revolution. There you go. so, uh, with that, we will bring this, uh, a lovely episode to a close. Please grab your glass. Remember to keep drinking sake and

Timothy Sullivan: 30:21