Episode 158 Show Notes

Episode 158. Enough playing it safe! It’s time for another walk on the high wire that is our extreme sake series! This time, the guys skirt the law and explore the rough and ready style of home-brew style sake known as Doburoku. While Home brewing of doburoku has been outlawed in Japan for over a hundred years, Doburoku can be produced legally in specially designated Doburoku zones across Japan and by facilities with an appropriate doburoku production license. Doburoku festivals are also held annually at dozens of shinto shrines around Japan each year. While it has bold flavors of rice, yogurt and a tangy, higher acidity, it is really the texture that makes Doburoku extreme. This is truly an “unfiltered” brew – no pressing of the mash at all. Bring your fork as doburoku is funky and chunky! In addition, the alcohol is low due to a shorter fermentation period. Buckle up and lets dive into another extreme sake! #SakeRevolution

Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 02:27 Extreme Sake: Doburoku

Doburoku. Unrefined sake. Home-brewed sake.
What is Doburoku? In short, doburoku is a type of home-brewed and completely unfiltered sake. It as a cloudy and chunky milky white appearance. Considered rough and rustic, this is a type of sake you may see served at festivals in Japan.

Doburoku has a few characteristics to look out for. First, a shubo (fermentation starter) is not used for doburoku. In addition fermentation period is shorter than standard sake, which leaves a lot of residual sugar, so you may notice sweetness in doburoku. The short fermentation time also means most doburoku is lower alcohol – somewhere around 6-10%. The license to make doburoku is different from the standard sake brewing license and may be granted to special production zones, establishments or shrines that produce doburoku for festivals, religious events or on-site consumption by tourists. There are well over 100 Doburoku zones registered across Japan and dozens of shinto shrines that hold annual Doburoku festivals. Home brewing of Doburoku has been outlawed in Japan since 1899 making the brewing of doburoku illegal without this special license. The liquor tax act outlines the punishment for brewing doburoku without a license in Japan, which is up to 10 years in prison or a fine of ¥1,000,000!

There may be some confusion between Doburoku and nigori sake, which is also cloudy in appearance. In contrast to Doburoku, Nigori is a coarsely pressed sake that is produced in the traditional way with a full fermentation starter and a longer, standard fermentation period. The coarse pressing of nigori (some particulate removed) is the main difference as doburoku is fully unfiltered.

The flavor of Doburoku can be sweet and yet have a tangy, high acid, yogurt-like flavor as well. Rice and lactic characteristics often predominate on the palate. The texture is also a standout with lots of chunky rice bits floating around.

Skip to: 14:36 Sake Tasting : Niwa no Uguisu Doburoku

Sake Tasting: Niwa no Uguisu Doburoku

Brewery: Yamaguchi Shuzo
Classification: Doburoku
Alcohol: 6.0%
Prefecture: Fukuoka
Seimaibuai: 60%
Rice Type: Yume Ikkon
Acidity: 4.0
Brand: Niwano Uguisu
SMV: -74

Purchase on TippsySake.com: Niwa no Uguisu Doburoku
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.

Skip to: 28:04 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

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Episode 158 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast and I’m your host. My name is John Puma. You may know me from the sake notes also from reddit’s r slash sake community Make it over to the internet sake discord and come say hi to me sometime.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:38
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 0:55
So, Timothy, I think, um, Timothy, I don’t think I’ve ever called you Timothy on the show before.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:01
I like it. I like

John Puma: 1:02
Oh, oh, well then. Very formal. Alright, alright. Mr. Sullivan. So,

Timothy Sullivan: 1:08
I think we’ve been playing it a little safe lately with some of our sake picks, don’t you? A little too mainstream. We don’t want to become known as the squares of the sake world, do we?

John Puma: 1:20
Oh, Tim, wherever could you be going with this?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:24
Yes, and one thing we haven’t touched on a while is a really fun series we do. The Extreme Sake Series.

John Puma: 1:32
Oh my goodness.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:34

John Puma: 1:34
It has been a while. We have not done the extreme series and, and wow, it’s been some time. It has definitely been some time.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:43
Let’s remind our listeners what, what some of the extremes are that we’ve tasted. We did extremely high alcohol, right? We did,

John Puma: 1:51
did, we did, we did extremely high milling percentage.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:56
Yes, we did.

John Puma: 1:58
that, you milled. Uh, we’ve done high acidity.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:01

John Puma: 2:02
Yes. Yes. Um, we’ve done Uh, extreme sake meter value in both directions.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:10
Oh, yes. Super dry, super sweet.

John Puma: 2:12
super sweet.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:14
Well, is there anything left? Are there any more extremes in the sake world?

John Puma: 2:18
I can name one.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:20
I can name one too. So we’re gonna tackle another extreme sake.

John Puma: 2:27
Yes, we are. Uh, I think the people at home may be waiting with bated breath. Timothy, what is the extreme today?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:35
Today’s extreme is a type of sake known as Doburoku.

John Puma: 2:40
Yes, Doburoku. Now, um, I have some hands on experience with Doburoku by virtue of the fact that, doboroku definitely overlaps with crazy style in this household, and so, uh, when we are overseas, um, where doboroku is a little bit more common, Myshell will tend to have it, she wants to have big, chunky, weird… Stuff she wants the unusual sake. This is an unusual sake. So that that happens a lot

Timothy Sullivan: 3:12
So the first thing we know from Your Wife, Myshell is that Doburoku falls into camp crazy style.

John Puma: 3:19
Definitely falls into camp crazy style

Timothy Sullivan: 3:21
Okay, so we’re on the path to extreme already.

John Puma: 3:23
Yes, definitely. Yes so, Tim, yeah, I know we got, it’s crazy style. To me, I look at it and it is extreme nigori in a way. Cause it’s big, chunky rice, milky, hazy. What’s the story with this stuff though? Why does it have its own name?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:38
Yeah, well, doburoku, if you look at it in the bottle, you’re right. It does look like nigori.

Timothy: 3:43
It’s chunky, it’s completely unfiltered,

Timothy Sullivan: 3:47
And one way that people define doburoku is that it’s, uh, often a type of home brewed sake. Now, this does not legally qualify as premium Nihonshu or premium sake. And doburoku is produced in a slightly different way from premium sake as well. fermented alcohol from rice. But the main big headline here is that Doburoku is actually, in most cases, illegal to brew in Japan because it is considered a rough and ready homebrew style sake. So it is illegal.

John Puma: 4:26
Okay. So

Timothy Sullivan: 4:27
Are we breaking the law right now, John

John Puma: 4:30
we’re not making any, so no, uh, but, My, so hang on a second. So it’s illegal, but I see this stuff on shelves when I go to Japan, and now I’m seeing it on shelves in America from time to time. Uh, now I do know that home brewing in Japan is illegal. So this, this dovetails with that law I imagine, in some way. So what’s, what’s the de There’s details here that I’m missing. Definitely some fine tuned details that I don’t understand.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:58
Well, yeah, it all… It all goes back to money, of course, right?

John Puma: 5:04
money. You don’t say

Timothy Sullivan: 5:06
mula. Yes. So, in the Meiji era, Let’s say 1868 and beyond, the government started to earn a lot of money from taxing the sale and production of sake. It was a major income source for the Japanese government So they wanted to preserve this income source, and they didn’t want people home brewing sake. quick and easy sake, doburoku style, in their homes. So they outlawed home brewing completely, and it still is on the books today. So you, but you asked a very good question. If it’s illegal… If Doburoku is illegal, how did you see it in Japan when you went? How can it be on store shelves and how is it being exported to the U. S.? So in the early 2000s, the Japanese government started passing laws that created special zones of Doburoku where this homebrew style sake could be produced legally

John Puma: 6:12
Uh huh. But only in doburoku

Timothy Sullivan: 6:14
It’s only in specially designated Doburoku zones, and the majority of these Doburoku zones are for festivals, Shinto rituals, events, Matsuris, and different regions that specialize in Doburoku. So, they said if you’re making it for these certain reasons and it’s going to be consumed locally, you can have a license to make this homebrew style Doburoku sake. So it is legal under certain circumstances. So you need a special license, and you need to get a specific designated permission to brew Doburoku. So it is legal, but only under certain circumstances.

John Puma: 6:58
So that’s complicated. Uh, I guess, I guess when you’re doing things with, with bureaucracy in Japan, there’s probably a, a phased approach you want to do. You can’t just turn around and be like, all right, Doburoku is fine. Homebrew is still not fine. So it’s interesting. That’s kind of like. That they’re, they’re, they’re playing around a little bit. Um, yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:19
But it’s good, it’s good. I remember, I went to Japan once, and I went to this, I think it was in Gifu, and I went to this small little town, it was a little inn, and they said, please try our local sake, and it was a Doburoku, and I was like, what is this? How do they have it? I heard it was illegal, but now I, after I studied it a little more, I came to learn that they have these special designated zones and licenses so people can come make it for local production, usually in tourist areas or connected to Shinto shrines and things like that.

John Puma: 7:49
Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if these modifications to the laws, uh, and these, these situations where people are able to make it and now export it all comes down to why it was originally. Taken out of the market, which is money. These, these breweries are going to sell it and, uh, they want to, you know, get that tax income.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:13
you know, it’s an interesting point, John, I think what’s happened is that places like this small town in Gifu are now tourist destinations and they use tourism as the driver now. So the government wants tourist money. So they allow Doburoku to be brewed to pull in the tourists. So

John Puma: 8:29

Timothy Sullivan: 8:30
you’re right that.

John Puma: 8:31
And now it’s a regular product and now it’s able to be exported to America.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:35
I don’t know much about the export rules, but I’m not asking any questions. That’s all I’m saying

John Puma: 8:40
You’re just happy to see more

Timothy Sullivan: 8:41
I’m just happy to see more variety

John Puma: 8:43
That’s great. I love it. Uh, and that’s one of the, you know, I think we’ve, we’ve talked about this on the show before. It’s something I’m pretty sure that, that I, that, Myshell had originally said to me is she’s happy when she tries a sake that she doesn’t really enjoy because it means that sake is bigger than any one person’s taste and there’s a sake for everybody. And so it’s the idea that this is a sake that’s produced and people are buying and being exported and being, and people are buying it in America and drinking it, um, means that it’s, it’s there for somebody. It doesn’t have to be me. It doesn’t need to be her. It just needs, you know, it’s, somebody’s gonna find their sake.’cause sake is so broad.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:17
So the next time I taste a disgusting sake, I’ll rejoice for that person who’s gonna love it Even though I hate I hate it

John Puma: 9:24
just, I mean, you know, if it’s a sake where you recognize the craft, but it’s just not your thing.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:29
Yeah, yeah got it

John Puma: 9:32
So we touched on the idea that this does look in the bottle a lot like nigori, a lot like a really big, chunky nigori, and we had an episode where we talked about nigori, and one of the things that came out of that episode was you telling me Two things. Number one, never ever call it unfiltered. Two, there’s not really laws about how much stuff needs to be in the nigori for it to be a nigori. And that there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s some places we’ll choose to say Usunigori when it’s very light. Some places we’ll just say nigori that, but the amount of particulate that’s in there is not really part of the, um, part of the naming is no, no rules that. that, uh, support that. This dobroku almost, almost certainly has massive amounts of stuff in it. So what makes it different from nigori then?

Timothy Sullivan: 10:20
Yeah, that’s a great question. So nigori is a type of sake, nihonshu. And the rules, as we talked about in our nigori episode, is that to be legally sold as sake, it has to go through a press of some kind. It has to be pressed. And nigori can go through a coarse press, but it still has to go through a pressing uh, shibori stage of some kind. And that, that is… what the law says. Now, Doburoku is a different animal. It looks like a chunky nigori in the bottle, but there’s Two major differences. One is that there is no pressing of any kind. This is drinking the mash.

John Puma: 11:04

Timothy Sullivan: 11:04
So this is like you just put the ingredients into a clay pot and you ferment them. The other difference is that nigori, if it’s a traditional Nihonshu sake is going to have a fermentation starter, and it’s going to be, you know, 25 to 30 days of fermentation, and, you build up the yeast and the shubo first and all this stuff. But with Doburoku, this is a rough style homebrew. So what they do is they take the four ingredients, they dump them into a container, and they ferment for about 10 days. The alcohol percentage is much lower with Doburoku because you don’t have these longer fermentation times. So the Doburoku we’re tasting today is 6 percent alcohol. Really, really low. Another extreme, um, but that is one of the major differences. This is a homebrew, rough and ready style of production where you just mix the ingredients together and you ferment for a much shorter amount of time. And a nigori is a classic. Nihonshu, or sake, where you do a fermentation starter, a full building up of the mash, and it must pass through a press of some kind in order to be sold as sake. So nigori and doboroku look alike in the bottle, but they’re very different as far as production and regulations.

John Puma: 12:27
All right. All right. So can we call this one unfiltered?

Timothy Sullivan: 12:31
We can call this one unfiltered, capital U.

John Puma: 12:36
All right, so somebody says they like unfiltered sake, so you like doboroku then. And they’re going to go, what’s that? And I’m going to push them, I’m going to point them to this episode.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:48
Yes, this is, this is truly unfiltered. It’s like drinking right out of the tank.

John Puma: 12:54
Excellent. Excellent. Well. extreme, extreme.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:59
Yeah. So you’ve tasted

John Puma: 13:01

Timothy Sullivan: 13:02
dobaroku before. I have as well, but we should probably let our listeners in on what. They can expect in general from Doburoku. It’s, it’s, we know it’s low alcohol. We know it’s not pressed in any way. We know it’s like drinking out of the mash tank. So what, what kind of flavors do you remember from your Doburoku experience?

John Puma: 13:25
Um, A little on the sweeter side

Timothy Sullivan: 13:29

John Puma: 13:30
what I remember. And I’m not gonna lie to you. I don’t have a ton of it. But the sweeter side, I think I remember some, I think, some little more lactic qualities on

Timothy Sullivan: 13:42
Yes. Excellent. Yep.

John Puma: 13:44
But yeah, and of course you can’t Possibly miss the texture Because of all that all those chunks in there.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:52
Yeah, you definitely want to look for sweetness because again the fermentation time is shorter so you’re going to have a little lower alcohol, a little more residual sugar. What you mentioned about lactic is right on the money. It’s like a, yeah, it’s, it’s like, um, a yogurty style drink. That’s very, very common. And the texture is really important. It’s like chunky. thick, really coats the glass. And some people go crazy for it. Some people don’t like it as much, but those are kind of what you can generally expect from Doburoku, I think.

John Puma: 14:30
interesting. It’s definitely, you know, it is definitely extreme. It belongs in this series. That’s for sure

Timothy Sullivan: 14:36
Yeah, so should we introduce the sake we’re going to be tasting today?

John Puma: 14:41
I think that would be fun. I think we should I think we should so, um this uh brand We’ve actually had this brand on the show before Uh, it’s Niwa no Uguisu. Um, more to the point, we’ve had the brewer of this brand on the show before, long, long ago.

Timothy Sullivan: 14:58
Yes, Yamaguchi san.

John Puma: 15:00
in episode number 49, we actually interviewed Yamaguchi san from Niwa no Uguisu. And it was a fun time. I had a good time having him on the show. His insights about, making sake in Fukuoka were a lot of fun. that’s, uh, Niwa no Uguisu, uh, from Yamaguchi Shuzo over in, uh, Fukuoka. Um, the rice variety here is, uh, Yume Ikkon. The alcohol percentage, Tim, as you mentioned earlier, is 6, so 6%, a very low alcohol on that Dobudroku. The um, rice milling percentage, that’s remaining, is 60%. The sake meter value, oh goodness,

Timothy Sullivan: 15:41
on, you can do it. You can do it.

John Puma: 15:43
it’s extreme, is minus 74. That sounds illegal. Uh, and the acidity is four. Oh my God. This is so weird.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:56
plus. Yeah, so

John Puma: 15:58
This is a weird, weird beverage that we’re going to be having.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:02

John Puma: 16:02

Timothy Sullivan: 16:03
So I do happen to know, people may be thinking, well, is this brewery in one of those Doburoku zones or what’s the story? I do happen to know from my research that Yamaguchi Shuzo does have a Doburoku and a standard sake license. So they’re permitted to produce premium standard sake and also Doburoku. So that’s how we’re able to get this really unique sake from Niwa no Uguisu.

John Puma: 16:32
so they’re just, they’re doing it as kind of a separate license. That’s interesting. That’s a good

Timothy Sullivan: 16:35
they have both. They have both licenses, which is Pretty rare. You don’t see a lot of commercial breweries producing Doburoku like we mentioned before. It’s a lot of, you know, small town inns or Shinto shrines or things like that or festival locations that are producing Doburoku. But Niwa no Uguisu, Yamaguchi Shuzo and Fukuoka, they are producing this really great Doburoku that we can try together. So should we get it open and get it in the glass?

John Puma: 17:05
I think we should. No time like the present.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:13
Now, John, before we open, I’m going to agitate my bottle. Gently agitate my bottle

John Puma: 17:18
gently as you do not shake, do not shake it.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:26
Okay. I’ve got mine in the glass.

John Puma: 17:41

Timothy Sullivan: 17:43
You poured? Okay.

John Puma: 17:44
I’m going to need to power wash this glass after we’re done. It is, it is, there’s a lot of stuff in here.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:49
yes, so we have to, we have to paint a picture here. So, We’re both drinking out of clear wine glasses, and the doboroku is pearlescent, cloudy white, and anywhere it touches, it leaves a trail of rice particles on the side of the glass. So it’s extremely coating, it looks very chunky, and completely opaque.

John Puma: 18:16
That is true.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:16
And when you look… If you tilt the glass a little and look onto the surface of the sake, it almost looks pockmarked because of all the little rice chunks that are floating on the surface, so it looks like a super chunky style. And let’s give it a smell and see what’s up with the aroma here.

John Puma: 18:33
All right. It is a lot.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:37
There’s a lot going on. Uh, I mean, it smells like mochi rice, it smells rice y primarily, and it also smells yogurt y. I think there’s a little yeast

John Puma: 18:47
The yogurt is definitely the first thing that I noticed. For certain. And, uh, yeah, the rice, the, the rice is in there. I believe it’s, to me it’s overshadowed so much by that, that that yogurt, uh, aroma, that, uh, lactic quality.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:03
Yeah, this smell also reminds me a little bit of like a pina colada, like almost coconutty in a way, like a little yogurt y, yeasty, pina colada aroma. You know, I thought when, when we talked about the sweetness that this is an SMV minus 74, which is a indication of the density of the sake. So this is much more dense than water. And usually when things get that sweet, you expect a lot of fruity expression, and on the aroma, there’s really not that much fruit at all. There’s maybe a hint of something here or there, but it’s, it’s really pronounced rice, yeast, and dairy notes on the nose

John Puma: 19:47

Timothy Sullivan: 19:48
All right. Okay. Let’s give this a taste. I’m ready. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. It’s chunky. It’s chunky.

John Puma: 20:01
It is. It’s like having a sake smoothie in a way. But in a different way than you’d get if you go to the one cup shop that we talked about in in Ebisu called Buri different kind of different kind of sake smoothie Over there. They’re freezing the sake this is just like like um, like when I say for smoothie and thinking more like like the fruit juice smoothies like where they take like a You know your bunch of fruits and they put them in a blender and then you drink that and you’re getting you can taste the Fibers of the fruit in it. This is this is like that

Timothy Sullivan: 20:35
when the sake passes over your lips, you feel little chunks of rice, like. It’s chunky. It’s very unusual, because normally any nigori you have is not going to have this size chunk in it. So, it’s a little unusual. I’m not used to it yet. And it has,

John Puma: 20:59

Timothy Sullivan: 21:01
and as far as the flavor goes, it has a sourness to it. Like it, the acidity is 4. 0 plus, uh, some, some sites listed a little bit higher than 4. 0, but there’s a sourness that gives you that real yogurt feeling like the, the way yogurt can be sour It has that taste for me. What do you think?

John Puma: 21:24
I Agree wholeheartedly. I definitely get that from here I haven’t had yogurt really a long time Reminds me and that reminds me I haven’t had this this eating yogurt isn’t, you know, there’s a uniqueness to that experience, I think.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:38
Hmm, yeah. Have you ever had amazake before, John?

John Puma: 21:43
Uh, once or twice.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:45
Okay. For our listeners, amazake is a drink of sake. Thank you. There’s a few different ways to make it, but the way I’m thinking of is a non alcoholic way of making, basically you start the sake fermentation process and you just never add yeast. So you break down rice using koji and then you stop. And you get this sweet, chunky rice drink and This reminds me, the texture reminds me of that Amazake, but the alcohol and the fermentation bring in a sourness to Doburoku that you don’t get with Amazake. Amazake is very sweet and ricey and this has alcohol and it has high acidity. from I think from the fermentation process. So,

John Puma: 22:30

Timothy Sullivan: 22:31
uh, it’s a, it’s very different that it’s interesting. Like the texture reminds me of that, but the finished product is very different. This is much more complex and, uh, much more sour than you’re going to get with something like an Amazake.

John Puma: 22:48
Yeah. The, now that you mention it, it does, it does. Ha It does remind me of almost, and I, it is not a, this is not a, a put down on it, it reminds me almost like of a, of a sour Amazake

Timothy Sullivan: 22:58

John Puma: 23:00
Um, yeah. All right. That makes sense. I, I get that when you say that, I’m like, all right. Yeah. Amazake plus a little bit of sour and is a little touch more, touch more lactic. Totally.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:10
Yeah. So there’s, uh, A hint of tartness, there’s, the riciness is still there, but again for me those dairy notes really kind of come forward. there’s a little bit of yeastiness, there’s a little bit of um, sourness, dairy, cream, and especially yogurt flavors kind of predominate for me.

John Puma: 23:34

Timothy Sullivan: 23:34
But this is completely free of lactose. So if there’s any lactose intolerant listeners

John Puma: 23:39
hmm. Ha ha ha. or

Timothy Sullivan: 23:41
a yogurt y, a yogurt y drink.

John Puma: 23:44
Ha ha ha. it does remind me a lot of, of, of a lot of things with lactose and that immediately puts me on, on, on alert because I am lactose intolerant, but it doesn’t have any of the, you know, any of the actual lactose that’s going to, that’s going to ruin my day.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:58
Good. I think it is fair to say that this sake is definitely. Extreme,

John Puma: 24:07
Yes. And I’ll say it’s, it is, it is not only extreme in its look and its texture. I want to say that the flavor is also, uh, very extreme. It is every definition that we’ve had. When we’ve discussed extreme sake in this series, I feel like at the end of the day, this is the poster child. It’s got all the things.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:28
Right? We got super low alcohol, we have super low SMV, we have really high acidity, and we have funky flavors. It’s the whole package. You’re right. It’s the poster child

John Puma: 24:44
it is perhaps the most extreme we’ve had on the show because it’s in so many different ways.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:51
Now, let me ask you a final question here, John, before we wrap up. I know that this is more Myshell’s jam than yours, as far as what she might like to drink for fun. But do you see a way of incorporating doboroku into your sake life? Or is this something that’s just too, too extreme for you?

John Puma: 25:10
Um, it’s too extreme for me. And I’ve, I’ve tried, I’ve tried a couple of times to try to get into it. Um, it’s just not, um, my style. And, you know, as we said earlier, best thing about sake, there’s something out there for everybody.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:23
Yes. There’s a lid for every pot. Yes.

John Puma: 25:30
yeah. Yeah. What, what about you, Tim?

Timothy Sullivan: 25:32
Oh, gosh. Well, I, I’m with you, John. Honestly, I, this is not generally my cup of tea. I can taste it, study it, appreciate it, and it’s, this is not my everyday drinking sake, I’m afraid. the texture is a little bit pushing me over the edge, I think.

John Puma: 25:52
Mmm. Yeah, I think that, um, you know, again, I’m already not a fan of things that are very lactic and, um, and I’m not a big chunky nigori guy. So you’re, introducing something that, that raises alarms subconsciously for me when I’m sipping on it because of the, because of that, that, that sour, yogurt. sensation.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:15

John Puma: 26:16
And so it’s really hard for me to, to relax and enjoy it the way I would want to

Timothy Sullivan: 26:21
Well, to be fair, we do have to spotlight the other side of the argument, which is there are Doburoku lover groups in Japan.

John Puma: 26:30

Timothy Sullivan: 26:31
So groups, and there are people who are designated Doburoku ambassadors as well. So even though it may not be our cup of tea as our daily drink, I think that For people who like the sweeter, lower alcohol side and are, you know, into a more funky flavor in their sake, I think that there are people and groups who are super into Doburoku. So that’s something to keep in mind too. Doburoku lovers, they, I’m sure they have t shirts and tote bags and everything.

John Puma: 27:03
hope they do. I actually think I know a couple of these, uh, Doburoku ambassadors actually,

Timothy Sullivan: 27:09
They could be your friends. You never know. Some of my best friends are Doburoku lovers.

John Puma: 27:14
my goodness.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:17
Well, John, this was exciting. It was fun to get back on the high wire and taste some extreme sake with you. I think we landed the plane, uh, and we, we, we got, uh, exposure to. some funky, funky sake today, and it’s always good. Whether you end up loving it or not, it’s always good to taste something new. Don’t you agree?

John Puma: 27:44
It is it is it is you know again, we’ve got this in the house now You know who’s gonna be drinking this bottle the rest of this bottle is gonna Myshell is gonna be having a great time with It maybe she lost some friends over that one dollar blast with it me I will, I will I’ll probably have a couple of sips with her. But, uh, you know, I’ve got my, um, I’ve got my fruity stuff over there to sip

Timothy Sullivan: 28:04
right. All right. Well, so great to taste with you. And I want to say thank you as well to all our listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in. We really do hope that you’re enjoying Sake Revolution. If you’d like to support our show, the best way to do that now is to join our community on Patreon. We’re a listener supported show. And if you’d like to learn more, Please visit Patreon.com/SakeRevolution to sign up to support us.

John Puma: 28:30
And another great way to support us would be going to your podcast platform of choice. Be at Stitcher, you’ve got your, your apple podcasts and others out there. I’ll leave a review and tell people what you think of our show, and, uh, that’s going to kind of drive the needle a little bit. Let people know that Sake Revolution is out there. When people are looking for podcasts about sake, they’ll point them in our direction, hopefully. and that does help us out a lot. Also, you know, do other stuff of telling your friends, family, all that kind of thing. So, on that note, please grab a glass of something very chunky and remember to keep drinking Doburoku, Kanpai!