Episode 89 Show Notes

Episode 89. We’ve all sipped sake from a glass, and you may have even used sake in cooking, but did you know its also possible to eat your sake as well? This week John and Timothy take a look at a very unique style of sake called kijoshu. It is made by replacing some of the water used in creating the fermentation mash with finished sake. This fortifies the mash and in turn creates a rich, sweet dessert-style sake that is often aged to deepen the flavor. Taste-wise, it could be compared to a sauterne wine or a rich sherry. Now, you can certainly sip kijoshu from a glass, but we’ll explore a totally fun pairing idea that has us reaching for a spoon instead! Listen in and taste along with us as we savor the flavors of kijoshu and try a totally new way to enjoy sake!


Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy


Skip to: 02:10 Introducing Kijoshu


Skip to: 05:48 Sake Introduction and Tasting: Hanahato 8 Year Aged Kijoshu

Hanahato Kijoshu


Brewery: Enoki Shuzo
Acidity: 3.5
Classification: Kijoshu, Koshu
Prefecture: Hiroshima
SMV: -44.0
Rice Type: Chusei Shinsenbon
Sake Name English: Gorgeous Bird
Alcohol: 16.5%
Brand: Hanahato
Seimaibuai: 65%
Yeast: Kyokai 9

view on UrbanSake.com


Skip to: 16:42 Eat your sake pairing


Skip to: 30:59 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!


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Episode 89 Transcript

John Puma: 0:22
Hello and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast. And I’m your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes, also administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord. And on this show, I am that guy who’s not the Sake Samurai.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:40
And I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am a Sake Samurai. I’m also a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about All things, sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 0:57
all right, Tim, as we cruise through the beginning weeks of 2022. Uh, what’s in store for us today?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:07
Well, I wanted us to try a super unique pairing sake and food together.

John Puma: 1:15
Uh, wait, I got to cook

Timothy Sullivan: 1:17
Nope. Nope. You don’t have to cook.

John Puma: 1:20
That’s good. Cause I don’t have anything prepared.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:23
But we’re going to be doing things a little bit differently today. We’re actually going to be eating our sake, not drinking it.

John Puma: 1:31
Uh, eating it?

Timothy Sullivan: 1:34
Yes. We’re going to eat our sake.

John Puma: 1:38
Hmm. All right. I’m going to need a little more color on this, I think, and we may need to shake up the format a bit because, you know, it seems a little different.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:48
there are some really unique food and sake pairings out there. There’s sake and cheese sake and Thai food, sake and pizza, but there’s a pairing that I tasted a long time ago and I really, really wanted to share it with you. So I prepared some for you and for myself and to get started. I wanted to introduce the sake first because this sake is super unique. And in my classes I’ve been using it for many, many years to introduce kind of a really unusual style of sake. So the, type of sake we’re going to be drinking is called kijoshu. Have you ever heard of that?

John Puma: 2:30
I have heard of Kijoshu., I believe I might have tasted kijoshu, but my understanding of it would not be in a position where I could explain apart from the idea that I know it’s

Timothy Sullivan: 2:45
Yes, aging is part of it but the primary definition of Kijoshu is. You’re brewing a batch of sakes. You build up the mash. We talked about this in our sake production series. When you put together a tank of sake, you don’t add all the ingredients on one day. You add them little by little, over four days. And what Kijoshu is, is that the fourth and final day of adding ingredients to a tank of sake, normally you would add a whole bunch of water on that last day. With kijoshu we replace that water with finished sake.

John Puma: 3:25
Huh?

Timothy Sullivan: 3:25
So mash is the mash is fortified with finished sake instead of water.

John Puma: 3:34
That sounds fortifying.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:37
Yes. Yes. So, kijoshu is not a common style of sake. There’s only about 30 breweries in Japan that are currently producing a kijoshu commercially and. They are aged to different degrees. Some breweries make a lighter style of kijoshu that is maybe aged a year or two. And some like the sake we’re tasting today age for many, many years and the reason for that is that that addition of sake, instead of water, when you’re building up, the mash brings in a lot of extra glucose or sugar the mash. So this turns into a very sweet dessert style. So. That’s what Kijoshu is really well known for is this kind of think of a sautern type wine, or if it’s aged a long time, even like a Sherry. So it’s very concentrated, very rich and quite sweet.

John Puma: 4:38
Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:39
So the sake that we’re tasting the kijoshu, the particular one that I picked for this really unique pairing is called Hanahato Eight year aged Kijoshu.

John Puma: 4:51
Um, Hayato uh, if I’m not mistaken is from Hiroshima.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:57
That’s

John Puma: 4:57
All right. I guess I’ve, I’ve had some of their other sake and the past.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:02
Yeah. And I read online, they say on their website that they’re the first brewery to release in the modern era to release a kijoshu commercially. That was back in 1974 and their portfolio includes a number of different kijoshus. So this is something they’re really known for. I actually saw on their website, they have a 30 year aged kijoshu for sale. Yeah.

John Puma: 5:31
So, let me get this straight. They have only been doing this since 1974 and they have a 30 year old kijoshu. this is the long game, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:43
Yeah. And that’s something they’re really known for.

John Puma: 5:47
Yeah,

Timothy Sullivan: 5:48
Let me introduce the stats for this Hanahato Kijoshu. So it says right in the name it’s aged for eight years. And as you mentioned, it’s from Hiroshima prefecture. The brand name is Hanahato, but the brewery name is Enoki Shuzo. And this has a rice milling percentage of 65%. And that is milled on a type of Hiroshima, rice chusei-shinsenbon.

John Puma: 6:15
Ooh.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:16
Yeah.

John Puma: 6:16
Hmm,

Timothy Sullivan: 6:18
And I read that that’s a local rice for Hiroshima prefecture, the alcohol percentage. Oh, sorry.

John Puma: 6:25
no Please continue.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:26
The alcohol percentage is, uh, just over 16% and where things get interesting is the SMV, our sake meter value minus 44.

John Puma: 6:37
So, yeah, a moment ago, when I laughed for a moment, I saw that that’s what I was laughing at.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:43
yes. And another. Stat that is kind of off the charts as our acidity 3.5. Normally acidities between one inch, 1.0 and 2.0, this brings us up to 3.5.

John Puma: 6:57
Hmm. You know, Tim, I think this may qualify as crazy style. It could be wrong. I don’t know.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:04
definitely a fringe style of sake, but it is so delicious and so unique. I really wanted to introduce you to this very special pairing. All right. So before we get into the pairing and reveal what that’s going to be, why don’t we open this sake up and have a taste straight, just sip on this sake on its own without the food pairing.

John Puma: 7:26
Straight. So you’re making it sound like we’re drinking whiskey, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:31
All right, so I’m going to open up the bottle.

John Puma: 7:39
Oh, dear.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:40
Okay. So I poured and what do we notice right away?

John Puma: 7:44
Um, this looks like tea. That’s what I noticed right away.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:51
Yes. It is very dark in color

John Puma: 7:53
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. This, this looks like, like, like English, like tea.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:02
Yeah. Or maybe even soy sauce it’s like, or a tempura sauce. It’s got a dark brown color

John Puma: 8:08
yeah, yeah. Not so much sauce, but tempura sauce. I could definitely see.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:11
Um, yeah. Okay. Super dark and color. And we know it’s aged for eight years, so that’s not a mystery there. I read this was aged in stainless steel, so this is not coming from any wood or any barrel or anything like that. So it’s just a room temperature aging for eight years and let’s give it a smell.

John Puma: 8:32
there’s a lot going on there. Wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:36
Yes. It’s smokey. It’s dark. It’s concentrated mushrooms. Anything else you’re picking up on?

John Puma: 8:46
it’s definitely a remember a while back, we talked about how, um, we had a Koshu and on our Koshu episode and the koshu stimulated, the whiskey lover part of John’s brain. This is doing that as well. It’s got a little, a little like almost chocolate.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:06
Oh yeah.

John Puma: 9:06
On the nose. Very not your average sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:12
Right. This is something special. And this is the type of sake that I feel you can really study. Like you don’t have to rush into drinking it. You can take your time, sip it, swirl it, sip it again, and really take your time with it. Just like you would a bourbon or whiskey.

John Puma: 9:33
Uh, yeah. And yeah, for most bourbons and whiskeys, you don’t want to just. I, you know, maybe depending on your event, but, uh, normally I would say you don’t want to just pound that, uh, you want to enjoy it, savor it, really experience it because there’s so much going on. And this has a lot of that, a lot of that here as well.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:53
Yeah.

John Puma: 9:55
Hmm.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:55
also a note of caramelization as well. Like if you think about dark caramel, Aromas as well, concentrated sweetness.

John Puma: 10:06
Yeah, it’s just so, so much, so much aroma on this. It’s crazy. Um,

Timothy Sullivan: 10:15
years is a long time to age sake.

John Puma: 10:19
it is is tremendously long to age a sake. Yeah. And as you pointed out in lieu of that final water push there, they’re just adding more So very

Timothy Sullivan: 10:31
Yes that right out of the gate, when this sake has made as a kijoshu, it’s going to be rich. It’s going to be super viscous to begin with and very high in sugar. So take that concentrated for eight years, and then you get the Hanahato Kijoshu

John Puma: 10:48
Um, yeah, it’s a little bit of like, uh, almost like honey to

Timothy Sullivan: 10:53
Um,

John Puma: 10:54
really, really dark honey, but wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 10:58
Yeah, When, what I think of when I smelled, this is kind of caramel, corn, you know, like a popcorn with a caramel kind of poured on it. So you get a little bit of that grain note in the background, and then the smell of the caramel on top that’s one aroma note that I’m picking up on it.

John Puma: 11:18
Yeah, that’s interesting tip. So you say Carmel.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:22
caramel, caramel. Oh, caramel.

John Puma: 11:26
no, that’s a, it’s been a, it’s a, that’s a battle in my house for years. It’s uh, it’s Myshell says caramel

Timothy Sullivan: 11:31
Am I team Myshell?

John Puma: 11:34
She says caramel. Maybe, maybe it’s the New York city thing. We say Carmel, I don’t know.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:40
Um, we’ll leave that fight for

John Puma: 11:42
We will.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:46
We’re both team kijoshu,

John Puma: 11:48
Oh yes, this is, this is very interesting.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:50
Yes. All right. Well, enough sniffin

John Puma: 11:55
Now we’re doing some

Timothy Sullivan: 11:56
let’s start sipping.

John Puma: 11:59
Oh boy.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:00
I’m going to give it a taste.

John Puma: 12:03
Wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:04
rich. Oh my gosh. Intense. It, it tastes like concentrated raisins and plums and you know, it’s got a, it’s got a really concentrated, dark, fruity note to it. A little bit smokey, a little bit mushroom me, lots of umami, but sweetness there as well.

John Puma: 12:27
uh, and, and I get a little bit of chocolate.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:33
Yeah,

John Puma: 12:34
Chocolate or coffee or coffee almost, or coffee, chocolate combination. But the, the fruits that, uh, that fruit flavor that, that aged fruit is in there as well. It reminds me a lot of like desserts that have fruit integrated with like a chocolate or something.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:54
Yeah. And I, I also think really high quality dark chocolate can have those fruity notes in it as well. And that’s really coming across here. So I love that tasting note of chocolate, like dark high quality, dark chocolate,

John Puma: 13:11
Yeah, this is, um,

Timothy Sullivan: 13:13
rich and concentrate.

John Puma: 13:15
a little bit of Sherry also. Yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:17
absolutely. And what about nuttiness? I get a little bit of nuttiness as well. If you think about like almond or maybe a little hazelnut.

John Puma: 13:29
I’m with you on the hazelnut

Timothy Sullivan: 13:31
Okay.

John Puma: 13:32
you on the Hazel. That, yeah, there’s just so much going on here. Wow.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:40
Really really unique,

John Puma: 13:43
Yeah. And as we said earlier, it’s very much. Like, this is not something you’re just gonna, gonna throw back. This is something that you’re really, there’s so much to explore with it and you need to go in there and sip it multiple times slowly to really uncover everything that’s happening here.

Timothy Sullivan: 14:07
Yup. I’m going to tell you some of the classic pairings with this sake, these are not going to be what we’re having today, but there are some pretty classic pairings to have with this style of Really aged, concentrated sake. So one pairing that I hear a lot with this is actually cigars,

John Puma: 14:31
Really

Timothy Sullivan: 14:32
cigars. Yes. I’m not a smoker at all. I know that people who like whiskey sometimes have a cigar every now and

John Puma: 14:40
Yes. Uh, the whiskey with the cigar is a thing I have also heard of like Sherry with a cigar. So

Timothy Sullivan: 14:46
yeah,

John Puma: 14:47
I could see that. That makes

Timothy Sullivan: 14:48
yeah. yeah. I am not a cigar person at all, but some people Really? enjoy them and have them occasionally. It’s just fun. If you’re into cigars to find a sake that you can enjoy with your cigar. So I just wanted to mention that for all the cigar lovers out there and another, a food pairing that is often recommended with this style of sake is fois gras.

John Puma: 15:18
Really?

Timothy Sullivan: 15:20
Yes, I’ve heard many people say that that’s a really good pairing as well.

John Puma: 15:25
Hm.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:26
That’s another controversial. We got cigars and fois gras super controversial on the show today. All these, uh,

John Puma: 15:32
Definitely outside of our comfort zone, Tim,

Timothy Sullivan: 15:34
yes. Yes.

John Puma: 15:37
fruity. And, and, and I don’t think is very much in common with Yamagata sake at all.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:43
No. And one of the tasting notes that we mentioned about this sake is dark chocolate and that’s actually a pairing you can use as well. So nibbling on some dark chocolate and sipping on that. What do you think about that?

John Puma: 15:57
Uh, I mean, if I had dark chocolate handy, I would immediately try it.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:02
Yeah. Yeah. And also, you know, you mentioned coffee as well, and I think any of those mocha desserts, like chocolate mousse, dark chocolate mousse

John Puma: 16:15
Ooh. My sweet tooth is tingling.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:19
Yes.

John Puma: 16:20
Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:21
Yes. One of my all time, favorite desserts is chocolate pudding. So chocolate mousse is right in that zone. And it’s absolutely one of my favorites. All right. Well, I mentioned at the top of the show that we are not going to be drinking the sake.

John Puma: 16:38
I, Tim, we’ve been drinking the sake for a little while now.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:42
well for our pairing. We’re not going to be drinking the sake. Yes. And we’re not cooking with the sake either. So what the heck are we doing? Well, John, the big reveal we are going to be enjoying the Hanahato Kijoshu poured over vanilla ice cream.

John Puma: 17:02
well, that sounds like fun. So wait. Well, we like, I affogato-ing sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:09
Yes, are affogato-ing sake.

John Puma: 17:13
Oh, that

Timothy Sullivan: 17:13
You’ve been affogato-ed.

John Puma: 17:15
Nice. Um, for, for those of you at home who don’t know what Affogato is, uh, it is, uh, I think it’s attributed to being an Italian thing, but it is basically like espresso poured over ice cream and it does wonderful things to both the espresso and the ice cream. So. Never done this before with sake and I’m excited

Timothy Sullivan: 17:41
Yes. So John we’ve prepared some vanilla ice cream for you, and I’ve got something else. Ice cream here, just going to put a scoop in my bowl.

John Puma: 17:54
working on it. Now I have to warn you and advanced him. I am a staunch proponent of vanilla ice cream. I know a lot of people think vanilla is boring, but they’re wrong and that’s okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:09
amazing.

John Puma: 18:10
They’re allowed to be bored. They’re

Timothy Sullivan: 18:11
can be amazing.

John Puma: 18:15
Vanilla is a wonderful, wonderful flavor of ice cream.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:20
Yes. Agreed.

John Puma: 18:22
so no argument here. Okay. So now we have, I have a cup, I have some vanilla ice cream in my cup. There’s a bottle of sake in my hand. How much goes in here? And do I just pour it on top or what?

Timothy Sullivan: 18:34
Yeah, just pour it on top. I would say one to two tablespoons, just like a little, a little affogato treatment.

John Puma: 18:42
I’m going to eyeball that cause I don’t have a tablespoon handy. Okay. All right. I, it has been a affogato-ed.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:50
Okay. So we’ve poured our eight year aged kijoshu on vanilla ice cream. And now we’re going

John Puma: 18:57
We’re going to, we’re going to pair this. I think it’s the first time we’ve ever done a pairing on sake

Timothy Sullivan: 19:02
Live on,

John Puma: 19:03
We don’t have food here.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:04
air.

John Puma: 19:06
All right. So here we go.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:08
I’m going in.

John Puma: 19:09
All right. Tim is working for me.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:14
Yeah, so the ice cream is starting to melt and it’s making a little kijoshu syrup in the bottom of the bowl. Um,

John Puma: 19:26
I’m going to add a tiny bit more kijoshu to my mix.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:29
Yeah.

John Puma: 19:30
I think my ice cream is dominating that the scene a little bit, this works

Timothy Sullivan: 19:41
I think it helps that your favorite flavor of ice cream is vanilla.

John Puma: 19:44
doesn’t hurt. This is a really nice,

Timothy Sullivan: 19:50
it’s, it’s fun. Right? For me, it really brings out the nuttiness like that. Hazel nut note we were talking about that really comes forward a little bit more for me when you have it with the vanilla flavor together,

John Puma: 20:04
There’s a fun bit of interplay between the ice cream and that, and the sake. It’s just like, um, it couldn’t because of sake is so, um, so rich and has such strong flavors and vanilla, you know, has great flavor on its own, but, it’s a little bit passive. So by itself you can, you know, it tastes great, but when you add something to it, I think you’re adding to, it really shines. And so it’s giving me a little bit of like, it’s just really bringing a lot of the alot of, those flavors in the kijoshu to the forefront and giving me a different spin on them, which is a lot of fun. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like when you take against you and you have it on the rocks, you’re kind of opening it up and it’s changing the. The way it’s expressing itself in a way. Hmm. But yeah, this is, this is really fun actually. I’ve I haven’t, like I said, I’ve never done this before and I’m kinda digging this right now.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:02
I don’t think this would work with many sakes, but this one is so unique and really special. And when I used to teach sake classes years ago, this was one of the sakes that was in the portfolio that I could choose from. And. We wanted to do a dessert pairing of some kind. And we first paired it just with dark chocolate. And then I had them get some vanilla ice cream reported this on top and everyone went crazy for it. So this pairing has always been in the back of my mind. And I’m so glad I was able to introduce it to you.

John Puma: 21:35
I am sold. This is a, this is a fun pairing.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:40
yeah, no glass needs. Put your Ochoco away, but I do have to say after several spoonfuls, you can feel the alcohol kind of warming you up and hitting you a little bit. Right.

John Puma: 21:58
this is a, a fantastic, like boozy desserts and that kind of idea, like is a thing. And it’s, it’s always been something that I’ve had a hard time, harnessing.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:11
Um,

John Puma: 22:13
this is working like, this is really nice. Uh, I’m I’m really enjoying this.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:19
yeah. When you say boozy desserts, people often think of like rum desserts, like rum soaked cakes and things like that. And I really don’t

John Puma: 22:26
no, not at all. Not your thing.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:28
but this, this is, this is a boozy dessert that I can get behind.

John Puma: 22:34
Yeah, I actually am really, this is a little weird, but I’m actually enjoying the sake a little bit more as part of this mix.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:44
Yes.

John Puma: 22:45
and you know, for the record, I am somebody who likes to have his whiskeys, on the rocks. So this tracks, I wonder if I would like this on the rocks, cause I’m having a relationship and I’m really enjoying it.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:58
I totally think this is a sake you could put on a whiskey ice cube and sip on it. It’s not super high in alcohol. It’s just 16, little bit above 16% alcohol, but it’s high enough that I think you could enjoy this on a nice, big ice cube and sip it out of a double old fashioned glass and really enjoy it.

John Puma: 23:23
Well might be doing that later.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:28
So, you know, there’s not a lot of pairings where you eat your sake.

John Puma: 23:32
No, no, I’m going to say, I mean, this is a sake as a dessert topping almost.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:42
watch your back Hershey’s coming for you.

John Puma: 23:45
Hanahato is coming for you.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:48
But there, there is one other eat your sake pairing. And we don’t have this prepared for today. Maybe we can do this for a future episode, but I wanted to run one other idea

John Puma: 24:01
Oh, what’s that?

Timothy Sullivan: 24:02
How do you F how do you feel about oysters? Do you, are you an oyster person?

John Puma: 24:07
Uh, no, I am. I am very, uh, texture focused in my, in my, in my food tastes and oysters sadly, uh, for me really get filed under slimy. Um, and I, and so I had a really hard time with.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:27
So they don’t pass the Puma texture test.

John Puma: 24:30
They do not pass the Puma texture test. And again, it’s, it’s nothing wrong with oysters. I it’s me. I know this, uh, but I’ve got a weird hangup about them, but please for our listeners at home who are not lunatics like me, what can they do with oysters and sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:47
If we ever go out for oysters, John, do not worry. I am such an oyster lover that I will eat your portion and then eat

John Puma: 24:54
Fantastic. I’ve been looking for you all my life.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:57
nothing will go to waste, uh, oyster on the half shell or raw oysters is something that I love and. When I was growing up, our parents would often take us to Cape Cod for summer vacations. And that’s where my love for oysters started probably started with deep fried oysters and then moved onto oyster on the half shell. But what you can do, if you have a, a plate of ice with the oyster on the half shell on it, a lot of people take many net sauce or, you know, they put all these sauces and sometimes they squeeze lemon on it. But one trick that. Uh, mazing that more people have to do. Take a nice dry, clean light sake and sprinkle a little sake on the oyster before you slurp it down. It is fantastic. So good. It brings some umami. It brings some acidity and it just really highlights the flavor of the oyster, which is, briny and umami driven. And that’s another, each your sake pairing that I highly recommend.

John Puma: 26:06
All right. I’ll bear that in mind. If I ever get over my, my oyster hangup.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:14
And if you stray from either of these two, each or something, Pairings. I think you start to get into the world of cooking with sake.

John Puma: 26:23
Hm.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:24
We could do a whole series on that, but cooking with sake is really interesting as well, but I wanted to talk today about this, eating it raw, you know, no cup with the oyster and with the ice cream, It’s really, really fun way to introduce people to sake. Yeah.

John Puma: 26:41
that makes sense. Also, if we wanted to do cooking with sake on the show, we’d have to get a whole kitchen set going on. And maybe some cameras I’ll take you to saying bam a lot

Timothy Sullivan: 26:54
And we’d have to get a chef

John Puma: 26:55
probably a chef.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:58
okay. So update, update, my ice cream has really melted down and the consistency of my vanilla ice cream in the bowl is now like soft serve. And oh my gosh, it is so good. It has mellowed out the kijoshu, which was a little sharp on the first sip. But now that it’s mixed with the cream and it’s nice and cold, it is almost like a dessert drink alongside the ice cream

John Puma: 27:27
know, have an idea that I might need to experiment with in the near future vanilla shake. With some of this kijoshu in it, like blended into the shake. Like how wonderful do you think that would be?

Timothy Sullivan: 27:44
Um,

John Puma: 27:44
think because you’ll get every sip, you’re going to get a little bit of the ice cream here. You got some of that kijoshu flavor going to be really nice.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:54
Yeah, it’s almost like Bailey’s Irish cream, you know, like cream with whiskey at this, like this is

John Puma: 28:00
Yeah, there’s there is there’s cocktail potential here.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:04
Yes. Hab. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That’s another show idea. sake cocktails for

John Puma: 28:10
could, you could probably make a really mean like, um, white Russian with this.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:16
um,

John Puma: 28:18
Kahlua and milk and vodka or, or without Vaka without or with, or without vodka. So it’s, Kalua with milk. So all I’m saying is key Josue and milk would probably work well

Timothy Sullivan: 28:28
Hm.

John Puma: 28:28
since that, I mean, at this point when it’s melted down on our plates, it’s basically what it is.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:33
Yeah.

John Puma: 28:34
I think that if you substitute the kijoshu, instead of the Kalua. It’s going to give you a lot of those same ideas, except you’re going to get a little bit more of this, this vibrancy that we’re getting from, uh, uh, from this Cujo issue. Uh, Calu. It can be a little, can be a little plain sometimes.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:52
Yeah. Yeah, but I have to say this melted melted slash melting ice cream with the kijoshu, so good. Oh my God.

John Puma: 29:03
Ah, Look at this, we found some new things and you have this, you’ve been hiding this from me all these years.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:09
I have, I was waiting

John Puma: 29:11
The right moment.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:13
today. Yes. I always joke. You know, we talk about doburoku, which is the completely unfiltered sake. I always joke about that. That sake is so thick. You can eat it with a fork, but this is actually something that you can eat with a spoon, because it is so good as a dessert topping affogato. I’m turning that into a verb from now on.

John Puma: 29:40
Affogato something,

Timothy Sullivan: 29:42
I’ve been, I’ve been, affogato’d

John Puma: 29:43
oh no,

Timothy Sullivan: 29:47
all right. Okay, John. So what’s your takeaway from today? How do you feel about eating your sake?

John Puma: 29:52
You know, on the show. It’s nice that, occasionally I get to learn something completely new. Usually it’s kind of like, I’m refreshing myself on concepts, I’ve know, uh, concepts I’ve known before. sakes, I’ve tasted things like that, really going in a little more depth on ideas that I have. And I have an understanding of, and this is something that was like really brand new for me. I never really dug into kijoshu. Or really any kind of ice cream and sake pairing to be completely honest. So that was the part that was brand new. Very little experience with kijoshu. And so getting to kind of explore both of them today was a lot of fun. This was this. When we go, when we get to the end of the year, we start talking about our favorite episodes of 2022. I hope I remembered to talk about this because this is great.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:40
Yeah, I be with, with a super unique sake and vanilla. Not much can go wrong, but I’m so happy it worked out and I’m really glad you liked it. And we’ll have more surprises like this in 2022, for sure.

John Puma: 30:58
excellent.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:59
Yes. Well, enjoy the rest of your ice cream, John. And, Uh, while you’re doing that, I want to take a moment and thank all of our listeners for tuning in. If you are ice cream fans, grab some kijoshu, get, some ice cream and give this a try at home. I think you will. Now, if you would like to show your support for Sake Revolution, one of the best ways to help us out would be to join our community on Patreon, all the support that we receive on Patreon goes to the costs of editing, hosting, and bringing you Sake Revolution every week. And we are a listener supported show.

John Puma: 31:36
Uh, sorry. It’s it’s really good. Uh, um, uh, you can go ahead and support us over at Patreon.com/SakeRevolution. Uh, and if you are not looking to become a patron, don’t worry. There are plenty of other ways that you can support our show. One of them you’re doing it right now. Just listen. Listening to the show. It really does help us a great deal, but what’s more, you can also tell your friends, tell your family, get them to write a review on their podcast. Platform of choice provided they enjoy the show. that’s a great way to get the word out. It really does help get some more ears on the show, which is exactly what we want.

Timothy Sullivan: 32:20
and as always, if you would like to learn more about any of the topics ice creams or sakes that we talked about in today’s episode, be sure to visit our website, SakeRevolution.com. And there you can check out the detailed show notes.

John Puma: 32:34
and if you have a sake question that you need answered, we would very much like to hear from you. Please reach out to us at [email protected] So until next time, please keep eating ice cream, drinking sake and compile.