Episode 187 Show Notes
Episode 187. Ever wonder where the sake bomb actually came from? Spoiler alert: it probably wasn’t Japan. This week on Sake Revolution, John and Tim dive headfirst into one of the most divisive topics in sake culture — the sake bomb. From its surprising roots in the 19th century boilermaker, to a 1987 Houston newspaper ad that might just be the earliest printed record of the drink, this episode is packed with history, hot takes, and a few personal confessions. Plus, we explore the question – is the sake bomb a gateway to premium sake, or is it a bad look for sake culture? The guys weigh in — and the answer might surprise you. Sit back, relax and get ready to take sides! Where do you stand on the sake bomb? #SakeRevolution
Skip to: 00:19 Show Opening
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
Skip to: 05:23 The Sake Bomb
Skip to: 15:27 The Sake Bomb in Print
Skip to: 25:58 Sake Tasting: Ozeki One Cup Junmai
Ozeki One Cup Junmai
Brewery: Ozeki Corporation
Classification: Junmai
Acidity: 1.7
Alcohol: 14.0%
Prefecture: Hyogo
Seimaibuai: 78%
SMV: +3.0
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku
Importer: JFC (USA)
Brand: Ozeki
Skip to: 24:31 Sake Bomb Stories
Skip to: 32:48 Show Closing
This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!
Announcing Patreon
Now there is a new way to support Sake Revolution. Join us on Patreon! Patreon is an online platform that allows you to support your favorite creators by subscribing to a monthly membership. At Sake Revolution, we’re offering two tiers, each with its own perk. If you enjoy our sake podcast, if you are able, please consider supporting this labor of sake love! See below to learn about our Patreon support levels.
-
Sake Enthusiast
Have you ever wanted to sip along with us as we taste our sakes on the podcast? Now you can! As a Sake Enthusiast patron, you’ll get the inside track and know in advance which sakes we’ll be featuring on the show. This allows you to get them on hand and sip along with us while you listen.
-
Sake Otaku
As a Sake Otaku supporter of the pod, you’ll get access to all the Sake Enthusiast intel along with access to a monthly live zoom Sake Happy Hour taking place the first Weds of every month at 9pm ET (6pm PT). Visit with us live on zoom! Come with all your questions and suggestions and enjoy a relaxed and fun Happy Hour with with us as we all sip sake together!
Episode 187 Transcript
John Puma 0:21
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s First Sake podcast, and I’m your host, John Puma. From the Sake Notes, also the administrator over at the Internet sake Discord. Uh, come visit us sometime. Uh, but yeah, on this show I’m the guy who’s, uh, not the sake Samurai.
Timothy Sullivan 0:42
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m Sake Samurai. I’m the Director of Education over at the Sake Studies Center at Brooklyn Kura, I’m the founder of the Urban Sake website. And you’ll find John and I here all the time talking about sake trying to make it fun and easy to understand. how you
John Puma 1:02
I’m good. I’m good.
Timothy Sullivan 1:03
Alright, well we have an explosive episode this week, John.
John Puma 1:09
Yes. Uh, we do, we do. So Tim, I hear this episode might be the bomb.
Timothy Sullivan 1:18
you got me.
John Puma 1:20
I never thought we’d do an episode on this. So you, you just, you explain yourself, sir.
Timothy Sullivan 1:26
Well, uh, you know, John, you and I are all about premium sake. We love to promote sake. We always love to speak about sake in a good light. We always like to look on the bright side and promote the best of the sake world. But there is a topic out there that dogs all of us sake educators, and I thought it was time that we tackle this head on It dogs us. Yes.
John Puma 1:59
I am. I’m fascinated by the dogging. Uh. But, um, okay. Explain the dog. in the
Timothy Sullivan 2:09
it, means, um, you know, it’s something that plagues us. So this is a topic as a sake educator that sometimes comes up and we have to address it. And it’s very divisive. It’s very, uh, you know, it splits the sake world into two camps. And the topic we’re gonna talk about today is sake bombs.
John Puma 2:33
Yeah, that I said it would be the bomb. And it’s that bomb.
Timothy Sullivan 2:38
It’s explosive.
John Puma 2:39
talking about. So, um, yeah. Uh, so, so, um, and, and we even get anywhere with this, Tim, I, I have a question for you. Have
Timothy Sullivan 2:48
Yeah.
John Puma 2:49
done a sake bomb?
Timothy Sullivan 2:51
I have never done a sake bomb. How about you, John?
John Puma 2:55
Uh.
Timothy Sullivan 2:55
True confessions.
John Puma 2:56
So, no, I have not done a sake bomb either. So that makes us the perfect people to be talking about sake bombs today. Now, now, now, why have you never done a sake bomb?
Timothy Sullivan 3:07
Well, I didn’t really get into sake till I was like 35. So think sake bombs are something in popular American culture that you do during college or you know, whatever. And I was not. Drinking sake during college, I never came across one. I was not a big drinker in college, so, uh, yeah, it never crossed my path. And then when I got older, I fell in love with sake and was introduced to premium sake right away and kind of never went down that path.
John Puma 3:38
Interesting. so what you’re saying is that like by the time you got into sake, you were too old for that. Too old for that shit. Has anybody ever offered you a sake bomb
Timothy Sullivan 3:51
I can’t think of one. People have brought it up to me all the time as a sake teacher, um, in a joking way or, you know, having serious questions about it. But, uh, no one’s ever put one down in front of me and been like, let’s do this.
John Puma 4:09
That’s funny. I can, I, I feel like knowing you, I feel like people would be a like. Like very, um, uh, how do I put this. delicately? You give the appearance of a man of, of high standing and I think that perhaps people would feel that you would be insulted if they tried to give you a sake bomb. That is, I’m not saying that that is what people think I’ve just, or, or that that’s what you think, but I think that people would be a little bit like, I don’t know, Tim Sullivan might be offended if I tried to give him a sake bomb What do you think
Timothy Sullivan 4:47
Well,
John Puma 4:47
Is it
Timothy Sullivan 4:49
maybe. maybe I’m a distinguished. Am I a distinguished gentleman? Look at this distinguished gentleman. Yes.
John Puma 4:55
yeah, yeah.
Timothy Sullivan 4:57
You on, you on the other hand?
John Puma 4:59
no, uh, me and I have been offered, um, sake bombs before, but my excuse is the one I have. I really just don’t drink beer. Um, and if I drank beer, it might be a lot of fun. I don’t know. But I
Timothy Sullivan 5:09
Yeah.
John Puma 5:10
I’m gonna have a follow up question for you.
Timothy Sullivan 5:12
Oh yeah.
John Puma 5:12
gauge your, your level of, of, uh, distinguished gentleness. when was the last time you did a shot?
Timothy Sullivan 5:19
Okay. I know the answer to this one.
John Puma 5:22
predate your first interaction with sake?
Timothy Sullivan 5:24
No, I’ve done a shot very recently.
John Puma 5:26
You did a shot recently. I’m very
Timothy Sullivan 5:28
Yes.
John Puma 5:29
what
Timothy Sullivan 5:29
Yes. So I went to a very nice cocktail bar in the city, in the West Village in New York. Uh, it’s called, angel share.
John Puma 5:42
Ah, yes. Ah, the legendary Angel Share
Timothy Sullivan 5:44
The legendary angel share. It’s now in the West Village and it is so fun and the cocktails are amazing
John Puma 5:51
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan 5:53
You know when you go in there and you are in the industry, and I’ve met some of the bartenders there before and they, they do serve Hakkaisan San Sake there as part of one of their cocktails and they were very, very kind to us and welcomed us, uh, as people who are in the industry and one of the suppliers for their products. And when we were leaving they said, would you like to do a shot with us? And so they picked a tequila and I did it. I said, there’s no backing out.
John Puma 6:22
I, I cannot, ima I cannot imagine you doing a tequila shot, no offense.
Timothy Sullivan 6:28
I did it. I did it.
John Puma 6:29
It’s, you see, you understand listening at home, seeing Tim Sullivan let his hair down is a rare treat and. And, and it. happens very infrequently and I clearly missed an opportunity at, at the Angels. I’ve been to Angels Share and all I had was, uh,$25 cocktails. I’d never had a shot. They’re very good. cocktails, by the way.
Timothy Sullivan 6:51
They’re very good. to answer your question, I have done a shot, but never a sake bomb, and I’m okay with that. I think we should lay a few ground rules about this episode because it’s going to generate a lot of controversy online, I’m sure. But one thing I wanna make clear right from the beginning here is that John and I are not doing a sake bomb today on this episode. Right.
John Puma 7:19
I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna lie to you. I wonder why that is, because if we’re doing it, we, we do an episode. and we always drink the thing we talk about. But here we don’t, and it’s not like we can change gears Right. now and suddenly make a beer appear because I don’t actually have any in the house. but what was the, what was the reasoning behind, behind that?
Timothy Sullivan 7:43
Well, I don’t think sake bombs are intrinsically bad. Um, and I don’t think I wanna do it because they’re not something that’s meant for premium sake per se. And I think that, um. If you wanna do that with your sake, that’s fine, but we decided not to do that because it’s not something that I necessarily want to encourage. It’s not a cultural part of the sake industry that I want to promote. I want to talk about it on this episode a little more academically, but, um, I don’t think doing it is going to. Help and support the sake industry, and that is always my number one priority.
John Puma 8:33
Sounds good. I like that explanation. You, you explained
Timothy Sullivan 8:36
Yeah.
John Puma 8:38
fine. I,
Timothy Sullivan 8:39
Yeah.
John Puma 8:39
I’ve also heard many fun things about, uh, about sake bombs, about their place, in the industry and what they bring to the party, so to speak. But, I did not do the, I did not do the studying on this one. You did. So why don’t you tell us, about the origins of the sake bomb.
Timothy Sullivan 8:58
Yeah. well, we should get some facts out there right away first. So
John Puma 9:03
I’m ready for the facts.
Timothy Sullivan 9:05
in Japan, the sake bomb is almost unknown. So the sake bomb is not something that originated in Japan or in Japanese culture and came to the US No, no, no, no, no.
John Puma 9:19
the general so’s chicken of, of sake, imbibing.
Timothy Sullivan 9:24
yes. So it is something that. Was born of American culture and most Japanese people don’t know about it. And when they hear about it, they’re like, wow, that’s really weird. So there’s a lot.
John Puma 9:40
what it is first?
Timothy Sullivan 9:41
Oh, we should do that for sure. Yeah, there may be. There may be people listening,
John Puma 9:46
knows his beer, and I think they
Timothy Sullivan 9:48
beer’s involved.
John Puma 9:49
And. If, if you got, if you’re with us that far, you’re nailing it.
Timothy Sullivan 9:53
Okay, John. So John, why don’t you give us your, uh, description of what a sake bomb entails.
John Puma 10:01
sure. Have you ever had a Jager bomb before you, the listener at home. Have you ever seen an Irish car bomb? Same idea, but it’s sake. Sometimes if they’re being especially fancy, they will take the shot of sake and they will place it on some chopsticks above the beer. You know, kind of as a, a, a, a platform and then you slam the bar. Inevitably the chopsticks will give way. The shot glass will fall into your beer, and then you pound the beer with the sake in it. That is a sake bomb.
Timothy Sullivan 10:35
Yeah, you nailed it. That’s it.
John Puma 10:37
Haha,
Timothy Sullivan 10:38
Yeah. And
John Puma 10:39
I just haven’t done it.
Timothy Sullivan 10:41
yeah, and uh, I will put. If you’re interested in seeing this in action, I will put a video from YouTube into our show notes so you can see the sake bomb in action. Someone else doing one and yeah, so it,
John Puma 10:58
Else, someone is
Timothy Sullivan 11:00
someone else. I wonder if people gonna are gonna think that you and I are on a high horse’cause we’re not doing a sake bomb, but
John Puma 11:08
No,
Timothy Sullivan 11:08
I don’t care.
John Puma 11:09
Um, you know, my horse is
Timothy Sullivan 11:11
I.
John Puma 11:12
I. just, just don’t enjoy beer.
Timothy Sullivan 11:15
Yeah. So you mentioned a few things when you were describing what the sake bomb was, John, and that actually ties into the origin of what it is a sake bomb is actually a cocktail.
John Puma 11:28
Literally. Sure. Yes. It is
Timothy Sullivan 11:31
I, I am here to tell you it is a cocktail.
John Puma 11:35
Okay.
Timothy Sullivan 11:36
there is, uh.
John Puma 11:37
one of those, like is a hot dog a sandwich? Kind of things like.
Timothy Sullivan 11:40
Yes, this is, this is a hot dog. It’s a sandwich. Yes.
John Puma 11:44
is a cocktail done. We have
Timothy Sullivan 11:46
I, I think so. So you mentioned an Irish car bomb
John Puma 11:51
Right?
Timothy Sullivan 11:52
and which is a cocktail,
John Puma 11:53
Right.
Timothy Sullivan 11:54
another one I wanna mention is a boiler maker. Have you heard of a boiler maker? I.
John Puma 11:58
yeah. I. think a boilermaker kind of covers all of these derivative bomb drinks, if I’m not mistaken. Right.
Timothy Sullivan 12:07
Well, a boilermaker is the original, and it started in the late 19th century. So the 18 hundreds, you would order a beer and it would come with a shot of whiskey on the side. Not dropped in, but on the side. So, uh. A pint with a shot that was called a boiler maker. And in the 20th century it evolved into dropping the shot of whiskey into the beer. And that is a modern boiler maker. So. It originated with the shot on the side and evolved into dropping the whiskey into the beer. And then the Irish car bomb, uh, is, uh, Irish whiskey dropped into Stout beer. So that’s a variation.
John Puma 13:01
That may have a mildly offensive name. We didn’t name it. That’s just what it’s called.
Timothy Sullivan 13:06
Yeah, I did look up the history of the Sake bomb to research this episode, and they outlined the evolution from the Boilermaker to the Irish car drink to the sake bomb.
John Puma 13:24
Irish car drink. I love it.
Timothy Sullivan 13:26
Yes.
John Puma 13:27
I do remember the boiler maker and thank you for clearing that up for me. I always, I knew the boiler maker was kind of like, uh, adjacent to the, the bomb. Um, but I didn’t
Timothy Sullivan 13:36
Yeah.
John Puma 13:37
that it was kind of the predecessor and the precursor. That’s where the, uh, good information.
Timothy Sullivan 13:41
Yeah. Have you ever heard of a Jager bomb?
John Puma 13:43
Oh, who hasn’t?
Timothy Sullivan 13:45
Okay, good. That is also in the lineage of these drinks too. A
John Puma 13:50
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan 13:50
Jagermeister with, uh, no Jagermeister dropping Jagermeister into an energy drink, I think is a Jager bomb.
John Puma 13:56
you, you can also do it with beer. Um, I’ve seen both. I think you, like Red Bull, right? Is usually
Timothy Sullivan 14:02
Yeah. Yeah.
John Puma 14:02
the
Timothy Sullivan 14:02
Red Bull.
John Puma 14:04
for a Yeager bomb. Yeah. I don’t,
Timothy Sullivan 14:07
Yeah.
John Puma 14:07
that doesn’t sound very appetizing to me.
Timothy Sullivan 14:10
Yeah,
John Puma 14:11
that’s one where I was too old. It was like, oh, we’re gonna drop jaegermeister into, into a Red Bull. I was like, that sounds like a heart attack. I don’t need that. Uh, so
Timothy Sullivan 14:22
I don’t do that.
John Puma 14:23
that. one I was too old for.
Timothy Sullivan 14:24
I don’t do Red Bulls either. But,
John Puma 14:26
Yeah. No, no, me
Timothy Sullivan 14:27
uh, yeah. So that’s kind of, I think some of the evolution, but part of the timing is when did all this come around? And if you look online, a lot of people kind of postulate or. Suggest that the SAKE bomb was invented by GIS coming back from Japan after World War ii, so in the fifties. But according to all my research, I think that SAKE bombs originated a little bit later, and I actually did some hardcore academic research for this episode, and I went. Online and researched in newspaper databases, and I spent quite a bit of time trying to find the first printed reference to sake Bomb the drink.
John Puma 15:26
A drink.
Timothy Sullivan 15:27
Yes. Do you wanna guess, do you wanna guess what year the first printed reference to sake Bomb. The drink is in any newspaper in the United States. Guess what year?
John Puma 15:43
So I, I don’t think I’m gonna be able to guess the year, but what I’m gonna guess is the 1980s, and here’s why I’m gonna guess
Timothy Sullivan 15:49
Mm-hmm.
John Puma 15:50
’cause the 1980s was that boom era for Japan. There was a lot of investment in the US and honestly, a lot of curiosity. So I’m gonna say the 1980s because that just feels like the right climate for, for Japanese influence to start creeping over here.
Timothy Sullivan 16:07
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It is in the 1980s, so congratulations. Um, I was thinking that if the sake bomb was invented in the 1950s, that there would be some mention somewhere in some printed newspaper before the 1980s, but I searched high and low and I. Did a really in depth academic search for this. And the earliest printed reference that I can find in any United States newspaper that mentions sake bomb related to the drink is the, um, it’s a Houston, the, the Houston Daily newspaper in Texas from 1987.
John Puma 16:50
I don’t know if I wanna know how you found a copy of a Houston newspaper of 1987, but I’m impressed.
Timothy Sullivan 16:57
Yes. So there’s a restaurant, there was a restaurant, Miyako Japanese restaurant. They, they advertised in the newspaper a sushi happy hour, uh, for sushi,$1 a piece. And it says sake dash bomb,$1 and 50 cents. So this is the first printed reference I can find to. Someone advertising a sake bomb as a thing. But you know, these, these drinks kind of, uh, evolve over time before people, they kind of catch up with popular imagination and then would appear in some kind of documented print. So it’s, it existed for sure long before 1987, but that is the first printed reference to sake bomb in any kind of advertising or, uh, article or anything that I can find.
John Puma 17:51
Interesting. That’s pretty cool. I, I’m very impressed that you were able to find that
Timothy Sullivan 17:56
Yeah, and I’ll put, I, I have a screenshot of the, the ad for Miyako sushi happy hour, and I will put that,
John Puma 18:05
up. I have now brought that, up on my screen and I can now see this, this little like clippy coupon. This is amazing by the way.
Timothy Sullivan 18:13
yeah.
John Puma 18:14
$1,
Timothy Sullivan 18:15
For sushi.
John Puma 18:16
Oh for, wow. That is
Timothy Sullivan 18:18
Yeah.
John Puma 18:19
can we talk about inflation for a minute? Wow, that’s, that’s incredible. Wow. Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan 18:25
It would be great if we ever get our DeLorean to go back to Miyako in Houston and try it out.
John Puma 18:33
Now out of curiosity, Tim,
Timothy Sullivan 18:35
Yeah.
John Puma 18:36
because my mind is always on the money, not really on the money, but my mind is always, on the sake, since we’re not doing sake bombs,
Timothy Sullivan 18:44
Hmm.
John Puma 18:44
are we drinking?
Timothy Sullivan 18:45
Yeah, I thought about that and
John Puma 18:47
you.
Timothy Sullivan 18:48
yeah, I thought it might be okay if we drink a sake that I’m sure many people have used in sake bombs before. So this is a, an entry level Junmai, and it is one of the most popular and most basic entry level sakes You’re gonna see. Wouldn’t you say that this sake’s probably been used in a few sake bombs?
John Puma 19:15
It wouldn’t shock me.
Timothy Sullivan 19:17
Yeah.
John Puma 19:17
And, and you know, it also doesn’t shock me. This isn’t the first time this sake’s been on the show before.
Timothy Sullivan 19:22
I.
John Puma 19:23
Mm-hmm. You may remember, historians sake revolution. Historians may recall that we’ve had this on the show before, and it’s funny that we just reference a newspaper from Texas because I’m pretty sure our guest on the show was from Texas as well. you’re talking about the Sake Bible with, author Brian Ashcraft and We drank the Ozeki one cup, which is exactly what’s in my hand right now.
Timothy Sullivan 19:49
we are gonna drink the Zeki one cup, which is a fine sake. It’s a June Mai, it’s made in Japan. We talked all about this with Brian. It is, a. Fantastic entry level sake. And the one cup form factor is super historic and we can talk a little bit about that. Refresh everyone’s memory. So I’m not saying that, the sake should be disparaged in any way, but I think that. When you’re looking for an entry level, approachable sake that someone might use for this sake bomb cocktail, I think that this is the style of sake that people might grab. It’s affordable. It’s, you find it everywhere.
John Puma 20:29
I agree a hundred percent.
Timothy Sullivan 20:30
Yeah. So do you want to give us the stats on the Ozeki one cup Junmai and bring us up to speed?
John Puma 20:38
absolutely Tim. So this is the Ozeki one cup Junmai. polishing rate on the rice is 78%, which is oddly specific. And yeah. At the time that that newspaper clipping was made in, in 1987, this would’ve been considered foot shoe because I believe at the time, June mine needed to be under, what was it, 70%? Aha.
Timothy Sullivan 20:59
right. You got it.
John Puma 21:01
I
Timothy Sullivan 21:01
A plus. A plus.
John Puma 21:03
History on occasion,
Timothy Sullivan 21:05
Sensei is impressed.
John Puma 21:07
sensei he will remember this. Okay. It is, Nakateshin senbon Rice, Sake meter value is plus five alcohol percentage is 13 and a half. I like that they bring it down a little bit’cause you know it’s a one cup, the acidity is 1.5. This is, a 180 milliliter beverage that was made in Hyogo Japan.
Timothy Sullivan 21:27
Yes. So Ozeki is one of the largest producers of sake in Hyogo. Hyogo is the Prefecture that makes the most volume of sake of any Prefecture in Japan. And this cup was introduced in 1964, the year that Tokyo hosted the Olympics. And. As we’ve talked about on the podcast in the past, one Cups from that moment on became synonymous with riding on the bullet train and having sake to go.
John Puma 22:00
the train was probably, It had already been in operation at that point, but not that long, I don’t think. And I think that having the Olympics is gonna be a time where you can really promote the shinkansen, uh, you know, come to Japan for the Olympics and use the bullet train to go everywhere also have the one cup.
Timothy Sullivan 22:18
Yeah, so 1964 was the Olympics and the start of the bullet train.
John Puma 22:24
really? Uh, for
Timothy Sullivan 22:25
Yep,
John Puma 22:25
it was earlier than that. Wow.
Timothy Sullivan 22:27
yep.
John Puma 22:27
It’s fantastic.
Timothy Sullivan 22:28
Yeah. And um. It says right here on this little tech sheet that there are more than 4 billion cups sold all over the world. Sounds like McDonald’s over 4 billion served.
John Puma 22:41
4,000,000,002.
Timothy Sullivan 22:44
Yes. All right. Well,
John Puma 22:46
Let’s get this open up and uh, have a
Timothy Sullivan 22:47
yeah. Sounds great.
John Puma 22:49
Okay. We should have put this in a shock glass and. it. At least we would’ve been closer to the spirit of the sake bomb. not
Timothy Sullivan 22:58
Yeah.
John Puma 22:59
milliliters though, people at, at home. That is not happening.
Timothy Sullivan 23:03
Alright, so the aroma is very rice-y and a little boozy, right?
John Puma 23:08
Right. I mostly, I’m mostly getting the rice, which is kind of
Timothy Sullivan 23:12
Hmm.
John Puma 23:12
I thought I would get a lot of booze and often when there’s booze, I’m very sensitive to it and I get that aroma really quickly.
Timothy Sullivan 23:19
Yeah.
John Puma 23:19
For whatever reason today, it’s, it’s really given me a lot of the rice, all that, that,
Timothy Sullivan 23:25
Yeah. As it should. As it should.
John Puma 23:27
Sweet. It’s sweet, sweet rice. Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan 23:29
Hmm. classic. It’s classic.
John Puma 23:32
I feel like I’m on a bullet train in 1964, except there’s no smoke in my apartment. I feel like, I feel like the bullet train in 19 four had probably had a lot of ambient secondhand smoke.
Timothy Sullivan 23:42
Yes, absolutely.
John Puma 23:44
would enhance the experience? Maybe, I think, I think, I think a one cup of sake On a bowl of train, 1964, I’m thinking Smoke. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We’re all there. We’re we’re here.
Timothy Sullivan 23:54
It’s good. It’s, it’s very, basic. It’s super classic. And I think when Ozeki sells this cup, they’re really tuning into the nostalgia of, of this particular sake, which was groundbreaking for the time
John Puma 24:10
Yeah,
Timothy Sullivan 24:10
this form factor, which was groundbreaking for the time.
John Puma 24:13
sure.
Timothy Sullivan 24:14
uh, approachable, affordable, accessible, and, All that being said, I still believe that if people wanted sake for a sake bomb, they would reach for something like this sake. So that’s why we’re featuring it. Yeah.
John Puma 24:31
I, I, I kind, I wanna tell quickly a little OA bomb story
Timothy Sullivan 24:35
Hmm.
John Puma 24:36
one
Timothy Sullivan 24:37
good.’cause’cause I, I have one too. So you go first? Yes.
John Puma 24:41
time I was at a, um, a popular. Sake bar in New York. this sake bar at the time was kind of known for their sake bombs. They may still be, I haven’t checked and. This, you know, uh, people around the bar, everybody ordered sake bombs. The bartender’s like, do you want one? You want? And, and kind of sold so many people on getting sake bombs. And I was there with somebody else, or, or was it, I don’t think I was there literally with them. I think we were just nearby one another. And that person, was a little more knowledgeable about sake and started kind of shitting on everybody having sake bombs being a little uppity about it. Thinking, you know, acting like the sake bomb was bad for sake. After everybody did, the sake bombs, everybody pounded them, and there’s beer sake everywhere. The bartender is like, look, you gotta, you know, you gotta understand like this, this sake bomb, these sake, you may, you may shit on them, but that this stuff is gonna get these people in the sake. More importantly, it’s the thing that, that. Keeps the lights on here so we can have the nice sake that you like to drink because we sell a lot of these and that, you know, and that person was just like, oh shit. And I kinda shut up and went on their way. It was an Interesting. moment of like remembering that like, you don’t, don’t, don’t shit on something just’cause you don’t like it. You know? It’s, it’s good for other people and, and it may have a, it may serve a purpose in the business that you’re sitting in. Which I thought was interesting’cause you don’t really think about it that way in a lot of cases.
Timothy Sullivan 26:08
Interesting. Do you agree? Do you agree with that bartender’s point of view that do you think sake bombs are a gateway to premium sake?
John Puma 26:15
I dunno. Exactly. I’ve never spoken to the people who had them there. I did speak to somebody once, whose first sake experience was a sake bomb. So there is at least circumstantial evidence that it might be the case, at least one situation. so story?
Timothy Sullivan 26:33
yes, my sake bomb story also involves a sake bar that you’ve probably been to. It is no longer open.
John Puma 26:44
Aw.
Timothy Sullivan 26:44
I was having dinner at this Sake restaurant and I was sitting at a table that was adjacent to the bar. So I wasn’t at the bar, but I was with an earshot. And this restaurant used to be on the Lower East side. And there was a group of. I guess I’ll call them frat bros. Frat guys.
John Puma 27:09
say, Bros.
Timothy Sullivan 27:11
Bros.
John Puma 27:13
I don’t think we need to identify the, uh, the type of bro.
Timothy Sullivan 27:19
They might’ve been fraternity bros, but they were broing out. They were broing out with each other and they were not disturbingly rowdy, but they were. A little bit rowdy and they were having a good time
John Puma 27:33
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan 27:34
and they kind of stumbled into this restaurant and they sauntered up to the bar
John Puma 27:40
Ooh,
Timothy Sullivan 27:41
the bartender. Yeah. the bartender went up to them and said, Hey guys, just so you know, we don’t do sake bombs at this bar. No, but they looked like, they looked like they were pro profile. They looked like to me, to me and the bartender. They looked like they were gonna ask for that. They got profiled and they, their, it was so funny, they immediately like sat up straight and. Like their tone like quieted down and the bartender saying that was basically like, you know, you guys are just a scooch too rowdy. We don’t do sake bombs here. And it, I thought it was a very interesting way to like say like, Hey, this is like a little bit of an upscale restaurant. You can’t be coming in here like it’s, you know,
John Puma 28:41
You’re
Timothy Sullivan 28:42
pong
John Puma 28:42
Bombs.
Timothy Sullivan 28:43
beer, beer pong Thursday at the frat house. So.
John Puma 28:46
at the frat house. Beer pong and sake bombs.
Timothy Sullivan 28:50
So they, they immediately were like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course. No, we’re, we’re not gonna ask for that. And, and they were not apologetic, but just like, oh yeah, like, they got the message right away and they straightened up and ordered some great sake. And, you know, story has a happy ending, John. So everyone enjoyed their sake and, uh, but.
John Puma 29:12
avoided sake bombs and got good sake. I have people who, maybe one day they’ll have, you know, uh, the premium experience.
Timothy Sullivan 29:19
Yeah,
John Puma 29:20
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan 29:20
but I think that that point you mentioned before is a sake bomb a gateway to enjoying premium sake. I have a strong opinion about that question, and I’m gonna tell you what it is.
John Puma 29:32
Okay. I, no, I, I thought you might.
Timothy Sullivan 29:34
I’m not gonna hold back. Uh, just like it, it kind of ties into the amazing episode we did with Goto San about sake. Cocktails our sake cocktails a gateway to enjoying premium sake. And I said emphatically at the beginning that a sake bomb is a type of cocktail.
John Puma 29:52
you
Timothy Sullivan 29:53
Um, I, I don’t. Necessarily believe that having these alternate versions of sake, or you know, mixed drinks that have a little bit of sake in them are going to make you a sake drinker. It’s like, oh, if you love martinis, that means in the future you’re gonna be a vermouth connoisseur. Like, no, it doesn’t work that way.
John Puma 30:19
I really, uh, enjoyed me some tiki drinks in Hawaii, and now I
Timothy Sullivan 30:23
Hmm.
John Puma 30:23
good taste for excellent rum, which you
Timothy Sullivan 30:27
So,
John Puma 30:27
get in a tiki drink.
Timothy Sullivan 30:31
so are, are you, you’re the counter argument that
John Puma 30:34
am
Timothy Sullivan 30:34
Tiki.
John Puma 30:35
that anything’s possible.
Timothy Sullivan 30:39
I agree. I think that,
John Puma 30:41
and you are talking to the guy who, who got into sake because he had Hakutsuru draft at the Ginza Lion once in 2006.
Timothy Sullivan 30:49
yes.
John Puma 30:51
Would you have, Would you assume that that there’d be a correlation there? No.
Timothy Sullivan 30:55
on the other hand, there are restaurants that if you go in to the bar and say, can I do a sake bomb here? They’re gonna say no. Like it is not acceptable in certain scenarios,
John Puma 31:10
You
Timothy Sullivan 31:10
I think that’s fine.
John Puma 31:11
to say in polite company, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan 31:15
For a distinguished gentleman.
John Puma 31:17
for a distinguished
Timothy Sullivan 31:17
It is.
John Puma 31:18
as, such as myself.
Timothy Sullivan 31:22
right.
John Puma 31:23
so Tim, what have we learned today?
Timothy Sullivan 31:27
Well. What have we learned? I don’t know what we’ve learned, but
John Puma 31:33
that you can find newspaper clippings from 1987 in another state if you try hard enough and if your target is sake bombs apparently, which is amazing. And I’m super happy that you did this. I
Timothy Sullivan 31:47
That,
John Puma 31:47
how you did it, but I’m happy that you did it. Um, I also learned that sake bombs have a much longer history than I thought.
Timothy Sullivan 31:53
hmm.
John Puma 31:53
I also learned that the shinkansen actually happened in 1964 and not in like 1959 or 60, which I previous, previously had assumed. I learned that, uh, that you can tell somebody they’re being rude in your restaurant by telling them that you don’t serve sake bombs.
Timothy Sullivan 32:14
Yeah. Well that, that’s. John, that’s a lot of takeaways for one episode, I think. Yeah. Well, I learned that you don’t have to do sake bombs in order to research them or think critically about them. So.
John Puma 32:30
Fair
Timothy Sullivan 32:31
gonna hide. I’m gonna hide behind the academic approach here, and for any listeners that think we absolutely should have done a sake bomb, please write in and let us know and we’ll take it under advisement, right John? I
John Puma 32:47
I think so.
Timothy Sullivan 32:48
John, this was really fun. Thank you for listening to my long and winding road explanation of how we got from a boiler maker to a sake bomb. And, I think the history of this drink is really interesting and it is part of American culture. There is no denying that
John Puma 33:07
Yes.
Timothy Sullivan 33:07
we just gotta, uh, you know. Study it in its natural habitat and not try to bring it out of there. That’s what I think.
John Puma 33:15
Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Timothy Sullivan 33:18
All right. Well, it was great to taste with you and, uh, just so much fun to be back in the saddle and enjoying sake with you. John, I’d like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in, but especially I wanna say hello to our Patreon supporters. If you would like to show your support for our podcast. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider joining our community on Patreon. We’re a listener supported show, and the support we receive from our patrons allows us to host, edit, and produce a podcast for you, um, every month. And we are so excited to welcome you, uh, to our community. To visit us there, go to patreon.com/sakerevolution.
John Puma 34:01
And. are looking up websites, uh, to look at sake revolution. stuff, go to SakeRevolution.com because that’s where the show notes live. We have a lot of visuals associated with the show sometimes. This is one of those shows, for sure, one of those episodes. so you’ll be able to see the coupon, the mystery ad, the coupon from the Houston newspaper from 1987. And I believe also some fun facts about the, one cup Junmai. So on that note, Tim, please raise your cup. remember to keep drinking one Cups and kanpai.