Episode 135 Show Notes
Episode 135. Ready, Set, GO! This week, John and Timothy explore another brand profile: Gokyo FIVE from Sakai Shuzo in Yamaguchi Prefecture. Yes, we are returning not only to Yamaguchi, but also to the town of Iwakuni for this week’s episode. The town is famous for it’s 5 arched Kintai Bridge and Gokyo Go FIVE (Go means 5 in Japanese) is a fun brand that explores seasonality and highlights the brewery’s dedication to “kioke” or wooden sake brewing vats. While breweries across Japan abandoned wooden vats to use for fermentation decades ago, Sakai Shuzo is bringing back this tradition coupled with a kimoto fermentation stater for good measure. The resulting sakes are educational to learn about and absolutely delicious to taste. Let’s GOOOO! #SakeRevolution
Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
Skip to: 01:38 Branded: Gokyo “GO”
In 1871, we set up a storehouse in this area blessed with the soft underground water of the Nishiki River. It goes without saying that the name Gokyo comes from the Kintai Bridge, a series of five curved bridges spanning the Nishiki River. It was named with the wish of the elegance of the Kintaikyo Bridge and the desire to bridge the hearts and minds. It was in the spring of 1947 that the name Gokyo spread nationwide. At the time when hard water brewing was at its peak, the acquisition of the first place in the National New Sake Appraisal by soft water brewing attracted the attention of those involved. Since then, thanks to the toji’s sharpened senses, tireless efforts, and technical refinement, Yamaguchi Prefecture’s representative sake has received the support of many customers not only in Yamaguchi Prefecture, but all over the country. Gokyo is characterized by its soft and fragrant quality that is unique to soft water brewing.
Find Gokyo on Social Media
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sakaisyuzo/
Website: https://www.gokyo-sake.co.jp/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sakaishuzo
Youtube: hhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9S76PrxeMQ6QirZsQw1dHA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/sakaisyuzo
UrbanSake: https://www.urbansake.com/sake-guide/sakai-shuzo/
All in good fun: GO vs Z – What do you think?!
Skip to: 16:41 Sake Introduction and Tasting: Gokyo Five Junmai Ginjo Kimoto “Orange”
Gokyo Five Junmai Ginjo Kimoto “Orange”
Acidity: 1.6
Brewery: Sakai Shuzo
SMV: +1.5
Seimaibuai: 50%
Classification: Junmai Ginjo, Kimoto
Prefecture: Yamaguchi
Alcohol: 15.0%
Brand: Gokyo (五橋)
Rice Type: Yamadanishiki
Sake Name English: Five Bridges
Yeast: Kyokai 701
View on UrbanSake.com: https://www.urbansake.com/product/gokyo-five-junmai-ginjo-kimoto-orange/
Purchase Gokyo: https://secwines.com/results.asp?str=Gokyo
Skip to: 30:09 Show Closing
This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!
Announcing Patreon
Now there is a new way to support Sake Revolution. Join us on Patreon! Patreon is an online platform that allows you to support your favorite creators by subscribing to a monthly membership. At Sake Revolution, we’re offering two tiers, each with its own perk. If you enjoy our sake podcast, if you are able, please consider supporting this labor of sake love! See below to learn about our Patreon support levels.
-
Sake Enthusiast
Have you ever wanted to sip along with us as we taste our sakes on the podcast? Now you can! As a Sake Enthusiast patron, you’ll get the inside track and know in advance which sakes we’ll be featuring on the show. This allows you to get them on hand and sip along with us while you listen.
-
Sake Otaku
As a Sake Otaku supporter of the pod, you’ll get access to all the Sake Enthusiast intel along with access to a monthly live zoom Sake Happy Hour taking place the first Weds of every month at 9pm ET (6pm PT). Visit with us live on zoom! Come with all your questions and suggestions and enjoy a relaxed and fun Happy Hour with with us as we all sip sake together!
Episode 135 Transcript
John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s Very first Sake podcast and I am your host, John Puma. From the Sake Notes, also the administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:37
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai. I’m a sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake, doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.
John Puma: 0:53
Welcome back, Tim.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:55
Yes, John, how you doing?
John Puma: 0:57
I am doing good. I’m really happy.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:59
Happy
John Puma: 0:59
we’ve been doing this long enough. Now that you know that one thing that gets me really excited in, in, in the Sake world is when Sake brands I’m familiar with from the, from the other. Start to come over into the United States. I always get excited about that.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:17
you’re, you’re like a kid on Christmas. When you hear a brand you like has released a new sake to the states, you are very happy. I do know that
John Puma: 1:27
ecstatic is, is really the right word. And, and uh, and it’s happening yet again. It’s a early in 2023 and I already have a gift
Timothy Sullivan: 1:38
So enlighten me. What brand that you love is releasing a new sake in the States.
John Puma: 1:44
Well, this story is a little bit, uh, it’s a little bit complicated, so I’m gonna take you back a little bit and then I’m gonna set us up for where we’re at now. So, on many of my trips to Japan, I would come across this very recognizable bottle with a very recognizable label that looked vaguely like a z to.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:07
Like Zorro.
John Puma: 2:08
yes, to my American eyes. And I would see them in various colors. So the label’s always black, and then the Z quote unquote, is always in, it’s like a shiny foil of either like blue or seen red or orange and blah, blah, blah. And I always knew it’s from Yamaguchi. Cause I would ask where it was from and I would always really enjoy all them. Really. It’s one of those, you see it sometimes and and you see it out there and you’re like, oh, I’ll definitely have a glass of that because you know it’s gonna be good. Now, independent of that, in the meantime, when I’m back in New York, I was starting to enjoy a lot of sake from a company called Gokyo.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:49
Hmm
John Puma: 2:50
were over in Yamaguchi, and I wanna say the first thing I had from them was a hiyaoroshi that came to New York and I thought was absolutely fabulous. Really nice, fruity, some great, uh, almost cherry like notes on it. Really good stuff. And, Start to explore that brewery a bit more, got really into them and low and behold, it’s the same company. Yes. This, this Z, which is not a Z, we’ll get to that in a moment. Um, was actually an imprint, a brand from Gokyo and I had gone several years enjoying both of them, not knowing they’re from the
Timothy Sullivan: 3:25
Same maker
John Puma: 3:28
Uh, but now I do. And I also know that Z is not a Z. It’s a very stylized go. It’s a hiragana go.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:37
and GO means the number Five in english
John Puma: 3:40
Right, right. So the hiragana symbol for go, it’s like, it’s like two, uh, parallel. Lines squiggles almost cause here. Got it. So everything’s a little curved. Um, and then that the, the denden the,
Timothy Sullivan: 3:52
Yeah. Two little
John Puma: 3:53
double slash, but I, on the, on the label, they kind of put the double slash like. In the middle in a way. And so it looks a little bit like a z I tell, look, it looks like a Z Look at the show notes. You’ll see, uh, I’m
Timothy Sullivan: 4:04
look like a z.
John Puma: 4:05
It does look like a z to the untrained eye. Um, but uh, when I found out that it was finally coming over to the States, I was ecstatic, absolutely ecstatic because again, fun brand, good stuff, something I enjoy from Japan. Something a little bit reminds me of my trips to Japan in a way. And when you find out you’re gonna be able to get it, It puts a smile on my face.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:27
That’s awesome. Well, Gokyo is from Iwakuni, Yamaguchi, and we just had a Yamaguchi episode a few weeks ago and we covered Gangi, which is a delicious sake we both loved. And that’s from the same city.
John Puma: 4:44
Tim, I’ll take you one further. It’s from across the street,
Timothy Sullivan: 4:48
Okay.
John Puma: 4:50
uh, essentially, so there’s a river that, we’ve talked about a little bit on the show, right in Iwakuni. And on the other side of the, of the riverbank is Gokyo. And on one side of the riverbank is, uh, is Gangi.
Timothy Sullivan: 5:06
yeah. Gokyo means five bridges.
John Puma: 5:11
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 5:11
and we talked in the go in the Gangi episode, we talked about the kintai bridge in Iwakuni, which is the five arches. So it’s an arch bridge. So the, the gokyo refers to the five arches in that bridge. Um, so it’s a
John Puma: 5:29
small world
Timothy Sullivan: 5:32
and I have to tell you, I looked up some information on Japanese websites about this Gokyo sake, when I translated it using Google Translate, several of the websites said, this is not a Z on the label.
John Puma: 5:46
So it’s not just
Timothy Sullivan: 5:47
It’s not just you.
John Puma: 5:49
Oh, good.
Timothy Sullivan: 5:50
anybody looking at it would think it
John Puma: 5:53
Would think
Timothy Sullivan: 5:53
Even Japanese people might think it’s a z
John Puma: 5:57
Well, having, like, having like romaji characters and like, you know, foreign characters is not completely unusual, uh, in Japanese sake, especially if they’re trying to make a splash. So I can see that.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:06
that’s a really fun connection that you made, that you found this sake in Japan with this mystery Z label that you loved and maybe didn’t understand who made it. And then you, you discovered Gokyo in the States and then kind of later connected the two, and now it’s coming. That’s, that’s an awesome story. I really like that.
John Puma: 6:25
it is. It’s a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun. so we are getting, four, currently four from that line are coming over to the States, and the first question that I had once I kind of understood what was going on is what separates the Gokyo brand from this
Timothy Sullivan: 6:43
five
John Puma: 6:44
brand, what they
Timothy Sullivan: 6:45
slash z
John Puma: 6:46
Z slash Z five slash Not “Z”, um, and it turns out that the, uh, five is an exploration.
Timothy Sullivan: 6:55
Hmm.
John Puma: 6:56
Yeah, it’s an exploration of Kimoto and not just like, you know, not, not, not necessarily, modern Kimoto, but specifically, Kioke Kimoto, which if I’m not mistaken, is quite specific.
Timothy Sullivan: 7:14
“kioke”. Yes. So. Gokyo is really exploring Kioke production and we should talk about that a little bit cuz there’s a little bit to dig into. So kioke is wooden barrel brewing. Yeah. If you went to Japan, like before 1910 and you walked around to sake breweries, they would all be using large wooden. Barrels, and these are called KI-OKE “ki” means wood, and oke is kind of like a barrel, and they’re large brewing tanks that were made out of wood. And making these giant tanks out of wood was a very specialized skill that has kind of died away over the years. I’d say like after 1950, most breweries switched to enamel or stainless steel tanks, so not many people. Brewed with these wooden, giant wooden barrels anymore.
John Puma: 8:20
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 8:21
But I read on their website that the president of Gokyo went to an event in 2006. Wooden barrel sake Production, preservation society event, and Yeah. And he tasted sake that was brewed in a wooden barrel and kind of had this revelation that this deserves preserving. And it’s important to note that miso and soy sauce production is still done in these large wooden vats, these large wooden barrels. So he was thinking why those are both fermentation? Why doesn’t the sake industry preserve these wooden barrels as well? So he got really interested in reviving the art of brewing in these wooden barrels, these kioke production, and they started harvesting cedar from the Nishiki River, which is the river that runs through Iwakuni and. It takes about 10 days, a team of people, it takes about 10 days to make one of these barrels. So it’s very labor intensive. And uh, there was one, one interesting thing that I learned when I was looking into these barrels. When you cut the cedar tree down and you look at the, the stump, there’s the heartwood, which is. Looks like a redwood tree. It’s like a reddish color, but then on the outside you have white wood that is like a ring around the outside. So there’s, that’s the sap wood.
John Puma: 9:56
I’m with you.
Timothy Sullivan: 9:57
so when they cut the staves for the barrel, they only use the part of the tree that contains both the sap wood and the hardwood. So it’s, they cut it from the very specific part because the sapwood, the redwood is the best wood to be facing the sake, and they want the white wood on the outside of the barrel, so that very specific part of each tree has to be cut. It was just fascinating the amount you think, oh, they cut down the tree and they make it, but there’s a very, very interesting way that they construct these barrels that has been honed over centuries. So I thought that was really cool.
John Puma: 10:36
It is so they’re, they’re going and making this very old style. Of, of Kimoto to make this very modern label I don’t think they were doing foil label on sake in, in 1910. So so this is very interesting how they, you know, he’s kind of like, bringing old and new, together in a way. and, and I’ll be a little bit more evident also when we start talking about that the, these sakes. This line of sake is very different. Like each one is very different, even though they’re all made using this old method.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:10
Yeah. So this, it’s a series of six different sakes, right?
John Puma: 11:14
Uh, yeah. The whole series is six.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:16
Yeah. And they also explore a little bit of seasonality too, don’t they? Like they’re made at different times of the year, I think.
John Puma: 11:23
I believe so,
Timothy Sullivan: 11:24
Yeah. So it’s the. So-called five series from Gokyo
John Puma: 11:30
there’s six of them.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:35
There’s six of them.
John Puma: 11:37
I don’t know. I feel like if they would’ve gone with five of them, it would’ve been a slam dunk.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:42
Um, and as we said before, they’re all brewed in these kioke or uh, wooden barrels, and they’re all Kimoto method.
John Puma: 11:52
Right. Exactly. But again, very different style for each one I’m gonna quickly and, and briefly kind of go through each one of the, of the entire line and then I’ll talk, you know, I’ll specify which ones are available to us here in the States and then I’m gonna specify which one we’re gonna be talking about today. Cuz we’re not gonna, I’m sorry, Tim, we’re not gonna drink four sakes today. I know you were very chomping at the bit about that. Yeah. However, As I mentioned earlier, the labels on these are very simple. You have the, the black background, black matte background, and then the foil totally not a z, of a different color
Timothy Sullivan: 12:29
The hiragana is totally not a z,
John Puma: 12:32
yes, the Hagon A five. That is definitely not a z uh, is, is just the main thing you see on the front. And, uh, the color of that five represents of the go, represents which one of the bottles you have. And so the red is, uh, the Junmai karakuchi, and that is a 11.5 sake meter value. A really, really dry sake, a Junmai, the blue is a Junmai Ginjo Nama that is, uh, that uses, um, slightly different rice and different yeast The orange, which is the one we’re gonna be talking about today, is a Junmai also, uh, very similar to the nama, that’s the blue, but uses a different yeast. So it’s always a little bit different, always something different with these, the yellow is a Junmai that uses shiro koj i uses white Koji,
Timothy Sullivan: 13:30
Hmm.
John Puma: 13:31
and then you have the pink, which is a Junmai Daiginjo Nama Genshu Unfortunately, this is not one that’s coming to the dates right now. Uses different rice, uses different yeast than the rest of them, but they’re all connected with Kioke Kimoto production style
Timothy Sullivan: 13:47
Yeah.
John Puma: 13:48
then finally we have the, green, which is a Junmai genshu origarami, so a little bit of particulate in there, and different rice again, and different milling and another different yeast. So it’s it’s a very interesting line. And when I first saw this, that’s when I was like, well, wait a minute. What is connecting all these? And that’s when I found. that is the Kimoto that binds them all together.
Timothy Sullivan: 14:12
is that green one also imported.
John Puma: 14:14
No,
Timothy Sullivan: 14:15
Okay, so the pink, the pink and the green are
John Puma: 14:17
The pink and the green are not imported. The red, the blue, the orange and the yellow are so you can get four out of the six of the
Timothy Sullivan: 14:25
five okay. And of the, of the four, of the five series, we’re gonna taste one
John Puma: 14:37
Right
Timothy Sullivan: 14:39
So it’s easy, it’s, it’s, it’s just math. Um,
John Puma: 14:44
It’s just Yeah, exactly.
Timothy Sullivan: 14:45
so let’s dive deep into. The orange. So that’s the one we got. So remind us what the orange is and give us the stats for that one.
John Puma: 14:54
Yes. Yes, I’d be happy to. So the orange is, Junmai, uh, it uses yamadanishiki rice has been grown in Yamaguchi. It is milled down to 55% of it, original size. the sake meter value is plus one. So very, close to neutral on that. Um, the acidity is 1.8. So not nothing too crazy there. The alcohol percentage is 15%. Nice and nice and normal right there. Uh, and the yeast is, uh, 7 0 1.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:29
All right. I believe this is a nama Zume once pasteurized and aged over the summer and then released in the fall. So
John Puma: 15:38
nice.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:38
so hiyaoroshi as well. So this is our orange. Definitely not a z. Five
John Puma: 15:47
Of a series of.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:48
of a series of six of which we’re tasting. One
John Puma: 15:50
Right.
Timothy Sullivan: 15:51
never gets old.
John Puma: 15:53
No, no. We’re gonna get a lot of mileage outta this one. And as I mentioned earlier, uh, the label, we’re looking at it right here, and it is in the show notes. So please take a look at the show notes to see it yourself. It’s a matte black with a slightly foiled orange, totally not a Z, but it really kinda looks like a
Timothy Sullivan: 16:09
It really looks like a Z
John Puma: 16:11
looks like a Z. And then, um, in the past, I’ve seen these have the word five underneath. I think somebody got upset that people were not recognizing that it was a go and we’re instead saying Z Uh, now it just says, To help people who are colorblind, I guess. Yes. Now, uh, yeah. Now it actually says the color. So it says orange in this case. Uh, it is also in orange. It says, it says orange in orange on the bottle,
Timothy Sullivan: 16:38
Below the
John Puma: 16:38
is a five out of six that we’re gonna taste one.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:41
Yes. All right, well Gokyo, go series orange. Let’s get this in the glass and give it a taste cuz my interest is peaked. I have never tried this before, so I can’t wait to try it. All right.
John Puma: 17:02
All righty. So we’ve got this in the glass.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:07
Little hint of color here a little bit. Uh, slightly golden color
John Puma: 17:11
Mm-hmm. Um, but I don’t see a whole lot in there, so it’s pretty, pretty transparent, pretty clear. Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:23
Hmm. So really nice aroma. I’m, I’m getting, hmm. Right off the nose. I’m getting smells like tangerine skins to me. Like when you peel a tangerine and you get that, Smell on your fingers that orange citrus smell.
John Puma: 17:41
Right,
Timothy Sullivan: 17:42
Orange
John Puma: 17:42
stronger. Like a tangerine, not like an orange though. Maybe like a mandarin orange. But I think tangerine is probably closer for a lot of people.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:53
So there’s a, a orangey citrus note on the aroma
John Puma: 17:56
Uh,
Timothy Sullivan: 17:57
really concentrated too.
John Puma: 18:00
There’s a, there’s almost a little bite on the end of that aroma though. Really nice though.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:05
Hmm. All right. I’m gonna taste, Hmm. It’s very smooth and I, I’m, I’m also getting like a citrus. Almost like an orange juice, hint of oj.
John Puma: 18:20
Hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:20
It’s um, little bit of a lemon peel, orange blossom, really lovely citrus, um, flavor as well.
John Puma: 18:31
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:32
Maybe a hint of rice in the background. Yeah.
John Puma: 18:36
really tasty. Like this is really, and it’s, and it is. I think, you know, this reads, I mean, you look at the, the, the stats, I guess this reads as a really light, refreshing sake,
Timothy Sullivan: 18:46
Hmm.
John Puma: 18:46
and I’m getting a lot of that from it. It is very light, easy drinking. This is definitely something that you could accidentally, oh, where’d the bottle go? I, this basically this fits the
Timothy Sullivan: 19:05
on your couch tonight.
John Puma: 19:06
might. This definitely fits the criteria for John sips this on the couch while watching some tv.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:11
Yeah. The other thing that stays with me sipping on this is the, the finish lingers on my palate. Like this is not clean and dry on the finish. Like we often say that, oh, this finish is dry, this finish is dry, this one lingers. And there is a, a weight for me there that continues to express flavor and that citrus note and that that. Orange blossom flavor just kind of continues for me. And that’s not so common in sake where you have that, I call it a wine, like finish where it lingers and, and you have that coating. And I, I really like that here. It compliments the flavor very well.
John Puma: 19:56
Yeah. And I, I will say though, for me, the, the lingering flavor is that faint orange. That’s the bit that hangs around for me, and that’s really interesting. it’s a lot of fun. I’m really liking this. It’s a little unusual, but it’s a really, interesting style. I really like this alot. And what’s really interesting to me is that this line is all about exploring this old style of sake making, but this is a very modern tasting sake to me.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:23
Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
John Puma: 20:24
Right. It doesn’t have the, it’s not super modern in the high acidity and blah, blah, blah, but it’s really, really nice, modern, smooth, clean, like this is textbook Junmai Ginjo really nice. But then with that citrusy quality to it, which you usually don’t get, usually get a lot more tropical fruit. This is much more. Specifically citrusy. And, uh, and as you pointed out, like orange almost, Hey, look at that. Labels orange, just occurred to me. it really just, it horns in on that and does a really great job. And it’s really, this is a really interesting, almost a bit of a twist on your typical junmai Ginjo, and a very pleasant twist for me.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:04
Yeah. I think we also have to consider that this was brewed in a wooden barrel and that it’s a Kimoto method. Kimoto again, is that yeast starter where they allow lactic acid to build up naturally over time, and that can. Introduce funky flavors on occasion for some Kimoto sakes, and I’m not getting that hardcore earthy, super rice-y Kimoto style flavor
John Puma: 21:30
not at all. Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:32
but there is depth there. There I, this isn’t a light airy. Citrusy sake. The, there’s some depth, a little bit of funk, a little bit of weight, and it does linger on the palate. So I think that what the Kimoto and the wooden barrel are bringing to the table are giving you some depth, some dimension and some weight.
John Puma: 21:52
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:54
Do you taste those things as well? Like the little bit of, depth of flavor there? I think it’s, really engaging.
John Puma: 22:00
There’s something I had said, uh, a couple of weeks back when we were tasting, a sake that was similarly light if you want it to be, and then depth if you want to explore it. It’s like light if you just wanna step on it. But then if you really wanted to think about it and really, um, let it linger around in your mouth a little bit longer if you really wanted to explore it, there’s, there is depth there so it can appeal to people who are looking for both, which I think is great cuz I’m sometimes looking for one, sometimes looking for the other. And, um, that’s really nice.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:29
So John, I know that one of your New Year’s resolutions was focusing more on food pairing, so I’m gonna put you on the spot and. I re, I, I recommended that you pay attention while you’re eating. Do you remember that?
John Puma: 22:44
I do. I do. I
Timothy Sullivan: 22:45
Pay attention while
John Puma: 22:46
many meals since we’ve
Timothy Sullivan: 22:48
I know it’s only been a couple weeks,
John Puma: 22:49
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:51
well, let’s, let’s take it apart. Like this has some weight to it. I think it can stand up to, you know, you wanna look at the weight of the sake first. If it’s light, airy, super clean, you’re not gonna pair that with. rich, heavy foods. This has some medium bodied tones to it. It’s got some weight from the Kimoto method, from the wooden barrel fermentation. So I think it has a chance with some dishes that have a little bit more funk, a little bit more weight to them. So that’s one thing, and it has that, that has that citrus, that orangey note for me a little bit of. Tangerine peel or orange blossom aroma. Just a really lovely little citrus kick there. And that’s another thing that I would pay attention to when you think about what to pair with this.
John Puma: 23:40
So here’s a, here’s a question for you. As somebody who’s learning about pairing, since this does have that, that citrus kick
Timothy Sullivan: 23:46
Mm-hmm.
John Puma: 23:47
would I then be looking at foods that also have a little bit of a citrus kick to them? Or am I looking for foods that would enjoy a citrus kick if they had them?
Timothy Sullivan: 23:56
that’s a great question, and the answer is both. One is, one is complimentary, so if you find a little hint of citrus or orange in your sake and you want to. Pair that with a complimentary pairing. Think about a salad with orange slices in it, or orange chicken or something like that. So that’s complimenting by layering the same flavor, like you’re, you’re pulling out the orange and the sake by serving a dish with orange in it, but your, your other point of view is just as valid. Where if you’re having a salad and it has grapes in it, but you think a squeeze of orange juice in the, in the vinaigrette would be a great edit. Bring in this sake, and you have your little hint of orange that way. So you can think of it as a phantom complimentary flavor for your food. So there’s two ways of approaching it. Uh, both are valid and both are fun. So that’s, that’s one thing that makes sake and food pairing. Uh, interesting and maybe a touch complex is that you can approach it in different ways. There’s not one black and white formula for it. So, uh, I mentioned a couple things. I mentioned the salad with the, uh, citrus or the orange wedges. That’s something I’ve had a few times. And orange chicken is another, another one.
John Puma: 25:15
Mm-hmm.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:16
Uh, any other thing pop to mind for you?
John Puma: 25:18
Well, the nice thing about citrus is that it’s a little bit broad, and I’m hoping that the armed specific aspects of this wouldn’t preclude me from doing this. But I have, some chicken katsu that we made recently that we put a lot of, lemon pepper the, in the batter when we were making it. And every time I. Eat this, it, it has a really nice little, little B burst of citrus and I’m wondering will this pair with that? That might be fun,
Timothy Sullivan: 25:47
Yes. The answer is yes,
John Puma: 25:50
Excellent. I’ll probably do that for dinner tonight.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:54
Yeah, that, that, that’s a great, that’s a great way to think about it. You know, you can make these connections and there, the great thing about sake is there’s lots of forgiving room when it comes to food and sake. Pairing very little you can do that will truly take you off the rails. So it can be wonderful to identify those little threads of flavor in the sake and look where they might meet up with your meal. Uh,
John Puma: 26:19
So I might have to do this and then report back in our next episode This is a sake Revolution resolution. So I might need assistance from Sake Revolution to help me truly, um, accomplish it.
Timothy Sullivan: 26:35
Yes. We’re going to keep you honest, John. Keep your feet to the fire.
John Puma: 26:39
Excellent. Excellent. I don’t mind being kept honest. It’s all good.
Timothy Sullivan: 26:44
Yeah, there’s, there’s another food pairing that I thought of and I’m kind of like, maybe it’s not as ideal. Have, you know when you have ceviche that is raw fish that is cooked, quote unquote cooked in citrus,
John Puma: 27:01
right? The, the as the acid from the citrus.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:04
It. Gently cooks the outside of the fish by marinating it. And I was wondering, you know, oh, that has a little citrus note to it. Could that be a good pairing? I think it would work. But there’s a depth here. There’s that Woody kimoto vibe under the current of this sake. Gives it a little more weight and depth of flavor, and I think the very delicate sashimi from, uh, ceviche might be a little bit too light, but that’s another thing that popped into my mind. Maybe it would work, maybe it, it might be the sake might overwhelm a little bit, but there’s another thing that popped into my mind. I think that if you tried them together, you wouldn’t go, oh my God, this is horrible, but
John Puma: 27:50
So it’s a question of like, how close, how, how, how good is it? So it’s not gonna be bad, it just may not be as good as you want. Um, that makes sense. And this is, I’m imagining that now, I haven’t had, uh, c chain in quite a long time, but I, I’m thinking this could work. I’m really thinking this could work and you may need to play with the temperature of the sake a little bit.
Timothy Sullivan: 28:11
Hmm.
John Puma: 28:14
I think there’s, there’s room for this. This can be awesome.
Timothy Sullivan: 28:17
Hmm. Yeah, my initial, like when I first sipped the sake, my initial reaction was, oh, I’m gonna want something a little meatier, a little heavier because this has some weight, some depth of flavor, and sashimi cooked in acid or not is not my first thought, but it has that citrus component that kind of made me think it might be a good fit,
John Puma: 28:38
by the way, as this warms up, it’s, you know, sitting in our glasses for a little bit now as it warms up, I’m getting a lot more of that depth, a lot more of that, that body. I wanna say that when this was cold, it was a lot lighter. When it was, when I pulled it outta the fridge, it was, it was a lot lighter Uh, and it is gaining momentum as it comes up to, room temperature. and it’s, it’s a, it’s a fun sake. This is a fun sake to sip on.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:02
Yeah. I mean, that’s true for a lot of sakes. When you drink them a little more well chilled, they’re a little tighter, a little crisper, and as they warm up more towards room temperature, they open up and get a little more depth of flavor. That’s definitely true here too, for.
John Puma: 29:18
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:19
Alright, well John, it was fun to visit Yamaguchi again, not just Yamaguchi, but Iwakuni again.
John Puma: 29:28
This is becoming a bit of a habit for us. Tim
Timothy Sullivan: 29:30
it’s, but they make so much good sake and we will be having another Yamaguchi episode when we have our friend Jim Rion. From Sake Deep Dive Podcast on to talk about his new book that focuses specifically on Yamaguchi sake. So this is not the end of Yamaguchi by any means. We’ve got more coming.
John Puma: 29:49
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, we should to figure out how we’re gonna categorize that episode, is it going to be a deep dive, part two on Yamaguchi? Is it gonna be an interview about his book? Is it going to be, a connection with his podcast? Is it all of them at once?
Timothy Sullivan: 30:03
my gosh. That’s a question for another day,
John Puma: 30:07
Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan: 30:09
All right. Well, great to taste with you, John. Thanks for getting your hands on this. Really interesting. Go or five sake series from Go Kyo. So interesting to taste this sake. Wonderful, uh, unique flavors and I hope that our listeners can get their hands on it too. And of course, check our show notes to see where to buy it… And uh, we will, Again, be exploring a little bit more of yamaguchi in future episodes. But this was a wonderful revisit of a Prefecture that we absolutely love their sake and I’m looking forward to more. John, it was so great to taste with you, and I want to thank our listeners for tuning in as always, and a special hello and hi and thank you to our patrons. If you’d like to support the show. Please visit Patreon.com/SakeRevolution to learn more about our tiers and different ways that you can support our podcast.
John Puma: 31:09
and another thing you can do while you’re over at SakeRevolution.com, checking out the show notes. You can also check out. Our store. We’ve got swag, we’ve got T-shirts, we’ve got stickers. You can wear some sake. Revolution merchandise. Show it around people. Ask, what is sake revolution? You can tell them it’s America’s First Sake podcast. So without any further ado, please raise your glasses. Remember to keep drinking sake and Kanpai!