Season 1. Episode 50. Well it’s been 50 episodes since Sake Revolution launched in 2020. The year turned out very differently than we expected… as did our little sake podcast. This week John and Timothy flip the script on its head and start the episode with a “kanpai”. John starts by asking Timothy what the heck is a Sake Samurai anyway? Has anyone else ever had a crazier first day in Japan? Let’s all promise to “Spread the word about Japanese sake around the world with pride and passion!” Then, we look back on how the Sake Revolution got started… it was just a couple of guys with a sake-soaked podcast idea and absolutely no idea what they were doing. What could go wrong!? Well, as it turns out, transcription A.I. is not yet up to speed with all the latest sake vocabulary, leading to hilarious transcription errors such as SUCKY Revolution. JUNE MY GOOD JOB! Challenges aside, to celebrate this milestone, the guys enjoy a 50% milled Yamdanishiki Junmai Ginjo from Izumo Fuji Brewery to celebrate 50 episodes. This soft and lovely sake is the perfect soft landing pad for winding down our first season of episodes. Looking to the future, we see a sunny horizon of on-location episodes and maybe even a visit to Japan?? Our sincere thanks to everyone who has listened to Sake Revolution so far. We are so grateful and hope to bring you more sake sipping, savoring and kanpai-ing in the next 50 episodes. Let’s go!

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Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

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Skip to: 01:02 Celebrating 50 Episodes

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Skip to: 02:30 What is a sake Samurai?

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Skip to: 10:05 How Did Sake Revolution Come to Be?

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Skip to: 18:29 Sake Revolution Transcription Mistakes

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Skip to: 21:59 Sake Tasting: Izumo Fuji Junmai Ginjo Yamada-Nishiki 50

Izumo Fuji Junmai Ginjo Yamada-Nishiki 50

Rice: Yamada Nishiki (from Shimane)
Brewery: Izumo Fuji Brewery
Rice Polishing: 50%
Sake Meter Value: +5
ABV: 15.5%
Acidity: 1.7

View on UrbanSake.com

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Skip to: 33:27 Hopes for the next 50 episodes?

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Skip to: 37:43 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

John Puma: 0:22
Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first a podcast. I’m your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. Also the administrator at the Internet Sake Discord. And the guy on the show who was most definitely not the Sake Samurai.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:41
I am your host, Timothy Sullivan. I am a Sake Samurai. I’m also a sake educator and I’m also the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.

John Puma: 0:59
Fantastic.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:01
Well,

John Puma: 1:02
it’s been 50 published episodes.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:06
gosh. It’s the big five -0!

John Puma: 1:08
This is the big Five-O, and a, and we’re going to do things a little bit differently today. We’re going to mess with the script, or we’re going to just have a little fun. We’re going to kick our feet up.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:17
going to let our hair down. Aren’t we

John Puma: 1:18
we’re going to let our hair down. We’re gonna just going to kind of talk shop. We got a little behind the scenes, how this whole thing got started, where we were, what we thought we were doing, where it ended up But, uh, I think that, uh, we need to loosen up a little bit and we’re going to start by opening some sake

Timothy Sullivan: 1:31
Oh, that sounds good.

John Puma: 1:34
Isn’t that nice. They’re going to do things a little bit in reverse.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:36
We’re going to celebrate a little today. We’re going to celebrate 50 episodes. I can’t believe it.

John Puma: 1:45
And we’re going to be opening up some, uh, Izumo Fuji Junmai Ginjo Yamadanishiki 50. Do you see what we did? There

Timothy Sullivan: 1:54
50

John Puma: 1:55
were so clever, Tim.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:57
Izumi Fuji Junmai Ginjo Yamadanishiki 50.

John Puma: 2:00
and we’ll, we’ll get into the details on the sake later we’ll do our usual tasting and talking. Uh, but for now we’re just gonna sip and, uh, have a little chit-chat

Timothy Sullivan: 2:14
Since we’re doing everything in reverse today. How about a Kanpai at the beginning?

John Puma: 2:19
Oh, that’s actually a great idea, Tim. 50 episodes

Timothy Sullivan: 2:24
Kanpai! Sounds so strange at the beginning. Hmm. This is good.

John Puma: 2:30
It is very nice. So it’s been 50 episodes and I think we got this a lot. What’s a sake samurai. Exactly. talk to me?

Timothy Sullivan: 2:40
Well, When, when I do events, when I’m teaching classes I’ll introduce myself or sometimes I get introduced by someone else and they say Timothy’s a Sake Samurai, and people giggle in the audience. They like think it’s a joke. They think it’s something I made up and call myself just for fun. But. It is not, it is actually an award or I guess a title that’s given out by the Japan Sake Brewers Association. So the Japan Sake Brewers Association has a group of brewers. And back in 2005, they came up with this idea that they wanted to produce some program that would allow them to promote sake. And they came up with this idea of honoring people who do something to promote the sake industry and every year,

John Puma: 3:29
you, which you most definitely do…

Timothy Sullivan: 3:30
Well, every year they give this award to five or six people and the majority of those people are in Japan. So I would say. Every year, four of the six people are Japanese and maybe one or two are foreigners. And the first ceremony of Sake Samurai was actually in 2006. Yep. And I had started my Urban Sake website in 2005. So I had been blogging and writing about sake back in 2005. And I always have to remind people, this was before iPhones, before Instagram, before Facebook, it was like Friendster and blogging. Like that was it.

John Puma: 4:17
Oh, we’re dating ourselves

Timothy Sullivan: 4:18
we are. Uh, for the young kids out there, you can Google it. Um, anyway, anyway, uh, so. I received this award the second year they offered it and yes. Yeah. So I was the second. Second generation of Sake Samurai, and nobody was more surprised than me. First of all, it hadn’t been around that long. So not many people knew what it was, but I got a call from them and they’re like, we’d like to offer you this award. We’re going to fly you to Japan.

John Puma: 4:52
That’s

Timothy Sullivan: 4:53
Yeah. So I got flown to Japan and I ha I have to underscore that I had never been to Japan before. So going to get this award.

John Puma: 5:03
was the first time you went to Japan

Timothy Sullivan: 5:05
well,

John Puma: 5:06
That’s this is a Tim. This is a story.

Timothy Sullivan: 5:09
So I arrived in Japan and it was in Kyoto. So I’ve, I flew to Kyoto, I got off the plane, I went to the hotel and the next morning I got up and I got up call and they’re like, okay, come to this Shinto shrine in Kyoto Shimo Gamo Jinja. Just tell the taxi driver that. So I went to the shrine in the morning and I get out. And it’s my first moments in Japan. Like I had just arrived and it was like, Oh my gosh, where am I? What is this what’s going on? They had this Shinto ceremony where I was like, uh, brought into the fellowship of the sake samurai. And I was up on this stage in this, UNESCO world heritage Shinto, shrine. And I was like had jet lag. And I was like, where am I? What’s going on? It was so crazy. And it was my first trip to Japan ever. And the ceremony basically you sign a book and then you swear to certain vows that you’ll promote.

John Puma: 6:13
are these, can you share these

Timothy Sullivan: 6:15
Yes, I can.

John Puma: 6:16
All right.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:17
So one is to love sake and the beautiful culture of Japan. Uh, the next one is check, check, uh, strive to gain a deeper understanding of sake culture and work on behalf of its further development

John Puma: 6:31
check. so far. You’re two

Timothy Sullivan: 6:33
Yep. And the third one is spread the word about Japanese sake around the world with pride and passion

John Puma: 6:40
which I think that you’ve done every moment I’ve known you for however many years, it’s been that I’ve known

Timothy Sullivan: 6:47
Yes and. It was like, it was mind blowing. Like it, it was unbelievable. It’s one of those experiences when it’s happening to you, you’re like, is this, am I watching a movie or is this really happening to me? That’s what it felt like. And then when I got back from that experience, those words, like, promote sake around the world with pride and passion, those words kept ringing in my ears. And a few months after becoming a Sake Samurai, I actually got up the nerve to teach my first sake class in front of people.

John Puma: 7:22
Oh, so it was, so this was before you were teaching, but after you had started Urban Sake.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:27
So when I first started Urban Sake it was like a hobby. It was a passion project. And I was just writing funny blog posts about all the restaurants I went to and the sakes I tried and, I had never been to Japan, did not speak Japanese, knew very little about the depths of Japanese culture or sake culture. And I was just reporting on what I was experiencing and. When I got back from that, what you could call a deep dive in to Japanese sake culture. And the ceremony was led by all these brewers who run these esteemed breweries. So I got to hang out with them and talk to them and they were so welcoming and so kind and that really lit a fire under me to start doing sake promotion more actively. And I decided to teach my first class, I was very nervous and did not do a good job. And I remember, I, I forced like all the people that I worked with to come to my first sake class that I had a cheering section there.

John Puma: 8:35
Every little bit

Timothy Sullivan: 8:36
Yeah. And, it wasn’t the best class I ever taught that’s for sure. But

John Puma: 8:40
I mean, it was your first try. It

Timothy Sullivan: 8:41
Yeah, so it, it got better and it sparked a real passion for me for wanting to teach and spread the word. And ever since then, I’ve been, uh, trying to live those sake samurai vows. So that’s, that’s really what it’s all about.

John Puma: 8:58
That is fantastic. And thank you for telling that story. I, I, I knew vaguely what it meant and I, you know, I understood that it was, uh, it was. I guess my understanding of it was that every year a sake brewing association with some kind recognizes people who, put forth a lot of efforts to popularize sake more. And everyone that I’ve ever met with that title has been somebody who really takes that seriously and and fights really hard to. Get sake brighter on the map. And I think that that’s a, that’s an awesome thing. Very cool. Thank you for answering that. Um, Well, my wife was telling a coworker once that we had about, Oh, John has this, this is podcast where they talk about sake. It’s like him and this, the sake samurai. And they talk all about sake. And the guy was like, wait, what? What’s a sake samurai. What does that look like? Does he have like a sword? Like, and I think he thought you made up the title,

Timothy Sullivan: 9:53
Yes, everybody

John Puma: 9:54
is completely in line with what you said. And I was like, no, no, no, this is the thing.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:59
when people ask me all the time, if I have a sword, I’m like, no sake samurai, wield bottles.

John Puma: 10:04
Do you have a bottle

Timothy Sullivan: 10:05
I always have a bottle within reach. Well, John, let me, let me ask you, for people who. Have been listening from the beginning. I’m sure people might be curious about how we got started, we’re 50 episodes in, but how did you and I even conceive of this, like, what are your memories of how this sake revolution started?

John Puma: 10:29
did we plan to meet up or was it a coincidence at Sakagura East village?

Timothy Sullivan: 10:35
That was a coincidence.

John Puma: 10:37
That was a coincidence. So we, so by chance we were both at the same restaurant and ended up sitting together. I think some of the brewers were in town and they were kind of in the back doing a thing. And I was at the bar having a drink and you had, coincidently shown up, to say hello to them. And then we ended up sitting down and chit chatting and, you know, we had known each other for a long time. It was, we hadn’t really caught up and. And then we’re kind of sitting there. I was talking a little bit about, about sake podcasts, and I think you, you were familiar with some of the sake podcasts that were out there, but. I think we felt that those podcasts or programs were catering to people like us who are really who are into sake. And we’re looking to, to really get, get really deep into the weeds on it. Like even more than we already are, and that we thought that there was room and we thought it’d be a good idea for there to be a show for people who were just getting introduced or had had sake once or twice, and really needed the basics. And so. I remember, we were like, we talked about it a little bit and, and then we went our separate ways and then caught up a couple of days later on, on a chat. And we’re like, Hey, uh, serious about this whole podcast thing and eventually we came up with our format and what we wanted to do.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:01
and we have to emphasize that we had no idea what we were doing. We may sound good now

John Puma: 12:08
We still don’t.

Timothy Sullivan: 12:10
we may sound slick now, but

John Puma: 12:12
is that what this is? Is slickness. Is that one? Oh,

Timothy Sullivan: 12:16
our levels may be correct now, but at the beginning, at the beginning, we did not know what we were doing.

John Puma: 12:26
Oh man. We had, so we just, we conceived all this, obviously before, uh, before the pandemic. In fact, I think it was like probably late, we’ll say like winter of 2019, where, when we were like really brainstorming and, and maybe even started to sit down and, work out a couple of tests episodes, because I felt like we needed to figure out our, collective voice. Like how do we play off each other? How do we sound when we’re talking to each other, but also just get used to talking to a microphone. And I know that when I was doing, cause I had previously done the sake notes, a YouTube channel with my wife and we did a bunch where we were just like, No, we didn’t like this, scrap it and then kept going until we were kind of happy. And then we started publishing. And so I thought that doing it in a similar way, but you know, it kind of is learning on the job, learning and doing a few test runs and then starting to collect episodes and then starting to release them would be the way to go. And I want to say that before we published anything, I went to Japan.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:33
Yeah.

John Puma: 13:34
And then we were supposed to record an episode while I was in Japan. I was going to be, it was planned to be like our fourth or fifth episode, I think.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:40
We thought we were so smart.

John Puma: 13:43
So like, I went to like the seven, 11 and got us sake at like 10:00 AM. I want to say. And, um, we were trying to figure out like, what does sake we can both readily get? And so we’ve got the, funaguchi, the kikkusui. The yellow funaguchi Honjozo Genshu

Timothy Sullivan: 14:04
It Yeah.

John Puma: 14:04
a can, but the, the local seven 11 by my hotel didn’t have the, can that, that the normal little can that we had in the U S they had a little 300 milliliter can with like a twist top. And so I got that. I was like, Oh, this is definitely that I brought back to the room and we start doing our

Timothy Sullivan: 14:21
Yup. We got on zoom. We started recording.

John Puma: 14:24
to start recording and. Uh, I opened up my sake and it’s definitely not what I thought it was going to be. And I, and, and, and I’m like, Tim, something’s not right. And you’re like, what is it? What is it? I take a look at the can and it’s, it’s got the normal, like funaguchi branding and he could Sue and everything on it, but then there’s this blue sash on the side. That’s like that. I just didn’t notice at the store. And I look at it and I, my, my Katakana was on that day and I’m like, Oh, It says Su-pa-ku-ling

Timothy Sullivan: 15:00
Sparkling,

John Puma: 15:01
it was pretty good actually, but we ended up not doing that whole thing. I think at that point, everything got really weird with the virus. And then we had to try and figure out, like, what are we going to do? Can we do this? Can we do it? Like the thing in Japan was a weird like, Oh, we’re gonna do this online. It can be totally different than the episodes we do in person.

Timothy Sullivan: 15:22
That’s the other thing, like for the first three, four or five episodes we recorded, it was before the pandemic. And we were sitting in the same room and talking to each other and we were both drinking the same thing. So our mindset was like, Oh, we have to drink the same thing. Then, then the pandemic came along and you and I had to shift to zoom pretty quickly. And we realized like, Oh, we can’t always drink the same thing. That’s fine. Let’s just. Each drink our own thing and talk about it. So we adjusted pretty quickly. But when we recorded that funaguchi episode with you in Japan and me here in New York. Yeah. We were thrown for a loop. We didn’t know what to

John Puma: 16:00
It was dead. Did not go the way we thought it was going to go. Not even a little

Timothy Sullivan: 16:03
but it was, it was kind of a priceless look on your face when you opened it up and you started sipping. You’re like, something’s wrong? Something’s wrong?

John Puma: 16:10
it’s just, this is, I’ve had this on

Timothy Sullivan: 16:12
this isn’t right.

John Puma: 16:13
like. This is very confused. but it was fun, you know? And, and I think we’ve had tons of good times making the show. and then we’ve had some weird times making the show. And, and learn that programming can sometimes be fraught with delicate problems from time to

Timothy Sullivan: 16:34
technical difficulties.

John Puma: 16:35
technical. Yeah. Technical difficulties. Um, so it guys, it turns out that when you’re recording a podcast, the number one thing you need to do. Is hit the record button. It really,

Timothy Sullivan: 16:46
the golden

John Puma: 16:46
really helps.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:49
Now, now, John, if one of us were to forget to hit the record button, you or me, who do, who do you think it might be?

John Puma: 16:57
Oh, it sounds like something I would do.

Timothy Sullivan: 16:58
But ironically, it’s something that I actually did. So

John Puma: 17:02
Also, I think it’s hilarious that you immediately are like, well, obviously John would be the one who hit the button. I don’t know what you’re trying to say about me. Um, but I agree

Timothy Sullivan: 17:12
true confession time. I did once forget to hit the record button.

John Puma: 17:17
completely and we got whole entire episode.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:20
we got 80, 80% through the episode.

John Puma: 17:25
and I thought it was a great one too. I was like, this is we’re hitting this we’re vibing on each other. This is fantastic. And then at some point you’re just like, you looked up and you’re like,

Timothy Sullivan: 17:35
bad news.

John Puma: 17:36
Oh,

Timothy Sullivan: 17:38
Look of terror.

John Puma: 17:40
look of terror, definitely look of terror. And I was like, I don’t understand what’s wrong.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:44
but you were, I felt horrible. You were really good about it. We, we just, we regrouped and we started again and no one was the wiser except for us. And now, well now everybody knows, but

John Puma: 17:56
Now everybody knows. Yeah. We’re not gonna say what episode that was.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:01
Yes, but one, one of our episodes, one through 49, one of them is a complete redo.

John Puma: 18:08
Oh yeah. I had a good time.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:09
Well, dealing with the recording software and all those things. Those aren’t the only technical difficulties we have. If anyone has ever visited our website, SakeRevolution.com, which I encourage you to do check out our show notes. Uh, one thing that we include.

John Puma: 18:25
Please check out our show notes because a lot of work goes into it.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:29
One thing we do every week that I think is really important for accessibility and for helping with SEO and all types of things. It’s a really good thing to do is to produce a transcript of the talking that we do. So every week we record our audio and then the service that we use does an automated transcript of what we say about. 40% of what we say is obscure, Japanese sake vocabulary. That is not part of the English dictionary. So we get a lot of really funny translation. Mistakes that the transcription mistakes are kind of hilarious. So every week we run the automated script on our audio and it spits out its best. Guess at what we’re saying?

John Puma: 19:23
it’s best guess. Yes and no. Uh, we, we have a small collection that we’d like to share with you of, um, of some of the greatest hits, uh, the ones that are safe for work. At least

Timothy Sullivan: 19:35
well question.

John Puma: 19:37
that were not so much. but frequently I am from, uh, the suckiness.com.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:42
John Puma from the suckiness.com, that would be the sake notes.com. Yes.

John Puma: 19:49
suckiness. And also, um, I’m a Soccer nerd. Um, on occasion, Tim has been a Soccer samurai, which that come on. Let’s make that a thing. Um, if it’s not already. Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 20:01
I’ve also been the Sucky educator.

John Puma: 20:05
Yes. Yes. Uh, all things sucking, um, Oh, sorry. All things sucking. We’ve also had all things Sucky um uh,

Timothy Sullivan: 20:15
And, uh, we’ve been. Uh, known to produce the soggy revolution podcast as well. Oh. And we’re big salmon fans here because we, uh, we consume and talk about sockeye a lot So the Sockeye revolution we’ve also have that. Yes. And we’re very good at sports because we are the. So much SOCCER Oh my gosh. I had no idea. I was so into soccer Yes You’re a soccer nerd

John Puma: 20:51
Mm,

Timothy Sullivan: 20:51
yes,

John Puma: 20:52
I

Timothy Sullivan: 20:52
yes

John Puma: 20:53
a Soccer nerd soccer samurai. We, we, we, we take them all here, but yeah, that’s a, that’s always a fun happenstance when trying to do our transcription.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:05
And, uh, we can’t leave out the insects because we are also producing the Cicada revolution podcast as well.

John Puma: 21:11
yes, I mean, Every, uh, every, every couple of years, it’s very important to call out the cicadas.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:19
Yeah. Yes. And there’s all those classification names as well, like Junmai Ginjo and Junmai Daiginjo and so one, one of them was June. Like the, the month, June, and then my, like my book “JUNE MY” and then good job. Instead of ginjo it said it was a good job. So it was a ”JUNE MY” Good job.

John Puma: 21:42
Good job.

Timothy Sullivan: 21:45
Well, yeah, so just know listeners out there in internet land. Just, know that every time we do our transcription, we, have a few giggles and a few laughs.

John Puma: 21:57
let’s talk a little about, about this sake

Timothy Sullivan: 21:59
Yes. Going back to our roots, to our first four or five episodes. You and I, John are drinking the same sake tonight.

John Puma: 22:08
we are. We

Timothy Sullivan: 22:08
Yes. We arranged to have the same one.

John Puma: 22:11
In honor of 50 episodes

Timothy Sullivan: 22:14
Yes.

John Puma: 22:15
This is the yamadanishiki 50 from a Izumo Fuji.

Timothy Sullivan: 22:20
This is a Junmai ginjo and it uses Yamada. Nishiki milled to 50% for our 50th episode. And yamada Nishiki is usually associated with Hyogo Prefecture, but this brewery is located in shimane. Yes.

John Puma: 22:37
where is that Tim?

Timothy Sullivan: 22:37
Shimane on the sea of Japan side so when you get over towards Yamaguchi to the far West of the main Island, that’s where it is. Yeah, and the name is really interesting. Izumo Fuji. So, Izumo Taisha is the name of the second oldest Shinto shrine in Japan. people dated back to about 700 A.D.. So this is. Very very old and very esteemed Shinto shrine. So that’s where Izumo comes from. And Fuji is a nod to Mount Fuji. One of the most well known symbols of Japan. Everyone thinks of Mount Fuji when they think of Japan.

John Puma: 23:23
I think that’s accurate.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:25
So they named this sake Izumo Fuji Izumo to honor the shrine in their local Prefecture and Fuji to honor Mount Fuji.

John Puma: 23:34
Hmm. good to me.

Timothy Sullivan: 23:37
Should I read out the stats? All right. So again, this uses Yamada, Nishiki sake rice, but grown in Shimane Prefecture. Uh, the polishing ratio is 50%. is a sake meter value. Again, that measurement of sweet or dry. This is a plus five and the alcohol percentage is 15.5. And we have an acidity of 1.7.

John Puma: 24:02
Hmm. All right. And what do you, uh, what do you bring us up to the newest, Tim? What do you have.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:09
Well, I get, uh, some fruity notes, uh, generally, but I specifically smell. Something akin to pineapple or more tropical fruits.

John Puma: 24:19
Yeah, I agree. A hundred percent. Uh, it is, it’s faint though. It’s not very in your face. Uh, but it is there it’s, uh, you, you kinda got to give it a nice swirl to do it. We’re really good at, to pop out at you. And yeah, that pineapple is like right on the nose. I think it’s that tropical pineapple, not so much citrus, not so much melon. No, wafting, nothing like that.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:44
Yeah, it’s really nice, very easy drinking. The SMV is plus five, which would lead you to think this might be a little bit on the lightly dry side. And I think that balances out the sweetness that’s on the palate. So it comes out. The impression is really balanced. If I had to guess what the SMV was. I might not guess a plus five, which might step into a little bit more overtly dry territory, but I find it’s really balanced, overall soft. Don’t you think like it’s kind of a soft impression, not rough or, or, um, biting in any way really soft and gentle.

John Puma: 25:21
With that plus five, you would think a lot crisper on the nose, especially as you’ve got that. When, when we think about plus five, well, let me rephrase that. When I think about plus five, I started thinking about those. Uh, I started thinking and he got to a little bit, it gets into got a little warm in my head. Um, yeah, I think it’s time to give it a sip though. Another step.

Timothy Sullivan: 25:45
way ahead of you.

John Puma: 25:47
that’s the key word on the sake it’s balance? I think it is. there’s a bit going on. It’s not one sided. It’s not I think it’s a bit multi-dimensional but everything plays into everything else.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:03
Yeah. Yeah. It’s very round soft. And there’s this word I use pillowy to describe something. That’s kind of like, it’s got a soft, comforting texture to it. There’s no sharp edges to the sake at all. It’s it’s round. It’s soft. It’s gentle.

John Puma: 26:20
I I’m, I’m really enjoying this. I could imagine somebody thinking this was boring.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:25
really?

John Puma: 26:26
Yeah, I know some people have want really big, exciting flavors, and this is not exciting. It is it’s relaxing, you know, it’s just soft and, and I don’t know if the word I wanna use is inoffensive, but that doesn’t mean it’s, that’s not faint praise in my opinion. I mean, that is one of the fun things about sake is you don’t taste the alcohol and you know, this is so subtle. Like it’s it, this, this will sneak up on you. I think

Timothy Sullivan: 26:58
yeah. Yeah. Another thing I know about this brewery is that it is a very small brewery. I think I read that there’s only three people that the owner and three people run this brewery. So for people making this sake and

John Puma: 27:17
not to be so belligerent, but how

Timothy Sullivan: 27:19
yeah, it’s a small, small brewery and they make, I think under 500 Koku a year. So KOKU the measurement of output of a brewery. One Koku is equal to 1,800 liters.

John Puma: 27:38
off the top of your

Timothy Sullivan: 27:39
Yes.

John Puma: 27:39
I’m very samurai, ladies and gentlemen.

Timothy Sullivan: 27:43
So Koku is a measurement of liquid and it’s, uh, the way that breweries measure their output or their production. So if you picture 100, 1.8 liter bottles, those Magnum bottles picture 100 of them stacked up on a couple of pallets. That is one KOKU. So 1,800 liters.

John Puma: 28:05
So they produce a really small amount of sake relatively speaking. They have a very small team yet. They export two separate labels to the U S

Timothy Sullivan: 28:13
yeah. So they have a Junmai as well. Don’t they?

John Puma: 28:15
Right, right. That’s the one.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:17
we’re so lucky to get this in the States. This is the type of micro brewed socket that you normally do not find in the U S so we are super lucky to get it.

John Puma: 28:28
you don’t hear a lot about it, but they’re making really good stuff.

Timothy Sullivan: 28:30
Yeah. Yeah. Under the radar, right? Yep. Yeah. So looking at this bottle here, John, seeing this on my desk here, as we’re recording. This makes me think of a problem that, you know, I’ve never had before, but a problem I have now since we started doing the podcast

John Puma: 28:50
What’s what,

Timothy Sullivan: 28:52
and that, that problem is actually leftover sake never had this problem before,

John Puma: 28:59
sounds like a solution.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:00
since, since, since we started recording, we, you and I have to get a bottle of sake every week. And something different every week. And, It’s totally fine to keep it for a week or two or longer, but I found myself wrestling with more open bottles since we’re opening a new bottle of sake every week. Um, it’s starting to take over my kitchen and my refrigerator. So, uh, I, I, if anyone can come and help me drink this sake please,

John Puma: 29:35
Tim, if I could, I would,

Timothy Sullivan: 29:36
Yeah, that’s this is, this is the, one of the pandemic problems I think is that I’m home alone with too Yes. I want to get a

John Puma: 29:46
and, and new to convince Scott to drink more problems solve themselves. These are, these are, these are problems that aren’t really problems. Really. You just got to modern problems require modern solutions,

Timothy Sullivan: 30:01
Do you have this problem as well? Like a lot of open bottles in your fridge.

John Puma: 30:06
Nope, Nope, Nope, tremendously. So, um, in my fridge, there are sakes that are, um, they’re sakes that are for me. for Myshell myshell also drinks a lot of. Uh, kind of like refreshing summery wines. She likes, uh, cocktails. Like she has a lot more cocktails than I do, but the sake is that she generally drinks aren’t going to go bad

Timothy Sullivan: 30:31
Yeah,

John Puma: 30:31
ever. Yes. So the, yeah, the, the, the qualities that she likes into sake mean that she can leave these on the shelf and they’re only hanging out better. Like we have sake games that aren’t even in the refrigerator for her, and then she’s going to be thrilled when she finally drinks them. And they’ve been open for months. But the sake is aren’t going to go bad. My sake are very fragile and I didn’t drink them fast. So I do, that’s my solution. My solution is I need to, Oh, these sakes. If I don’t drink the sake, it’s going to go bad. And I that’s. That is wasteful and I will not have it happen in my home.

Timothy Sullivan: 31:07
you will not stand for it.

John Puma: 31:09
no, not at all. I do enjoy finding out How a sake at changes,

Timothy Sullivan: 31:15
Hm.

John Puma: 31:15
uh, overtime, because it does, it’s not like every sake, you know, it’s not like it’s like, Oh two weeks and, Oh, this is just bad. It’s like, not necessarily, it’s different. It’s different. And I think that the thing that I always get told is the, uh, it gets away from the brewer intent,

Timothy Sullivan: 31:31
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes.

John Puma: 31:34
but I don’t want, I don’t want people to mistake that concept from necessarily bad. It’s different and it, and it does get away from what they were looking to accomplish in a lot of cases, but it’s not intrinsically negative. Like sometimes really fun things happen when you, when you do that. Um, and I’ve had really, you know, fun experiences with sake. Has it been open for a week or two weeks? And they, they change and open up in different ways and become a little different. And, and, and there’s no problem with that. I’ve had other ones now, not so much, but you know, I’m trying to focus on the positive here. And there definitely are situations where, where I’ve had great experiences with, uh, with sake that’s been open and you don’t know until you, until you do a sake podcast and have a lot of open sake that you need to need to either drink fast and you have a full-time job, and then it becomes difficult.

Timothy Sullivan: 32:34
Yeah. I mean, th this is definitely a new experience for me. I am not someone who would shy away from drinking sake obviously in the past. But if I was going out to restaurants for business, three times a week in the past, I wouldn’t need to bring a lot of sake home, but now I need a fresh bottle opened every week. And it is interesting. I agree with you that Maybe a sake that we tasted four weeks ago on the podcast is in the back of my fridge and I pull it out and taste it. Sometimes it is evolved in a very interesting, delicious way. And sometimes not sometimes I’m like, Oh, I liked this better fresh. So it, it really is a case by case basis. Isn’t it?

John Puma: 33:14
uh, it is, um, a little unpredictable, I want to say until you’ve done it. And then, you know, but, but I have had those good experiences. I’m really glad I have, um, That’s always a nice thing to get surprised.

Timothy Sullivan: 33:27
So John, I got one last question for you before we wind up we’ve gotten through 50 episodes almost a year under our belt. What are, yeah. What are your hopes for the next 50 episodes of sake revolution? What do you want to see happening for let’s say for our second season, out on the air.

John Puma: 33:46
Hmm. I, I feel that as we go along, it’s like we, we started this to bring new people on, right. And to be a resource for people who are not familiar with sake, haven’t had it. But now as we go on, like, do we build on that? Do we get, do we get more complex? We get deeper. Do we go down the rabbit hole? Do we, as the pandemic opens up, do we get to do travel? That is that a fun thing we get to, we get to play with, Guests, what kind of guests do we get to have on we’ve had myriad sake samurais. I’m feel like I’m surrounded half the time on the show. Um, we’ve had American Sake Brewers we’ve had representatives from distributors. we have had Japanese sake brewers. Where do we go next? Like what’s the next horizon? And that’s what I’m looking at. I want to know what do we do next? What’s going to be fun. I think maybe travel. That sounds like fun. All location stuff. Decibel was a lot of fun. I think more on location would be something that I would look forward to doing. I would love to one day do an episode from a brewery. That’s that I think that’s, that’s my bucket list item here for the, for the show. Uh, I would love to do something on location at a brewery. I think that would be a lot of fun.

Timothy Sullivan: 35:14
Well, I really think the on location thing is something I envisioned us doing from the very beginning, doing our recording from different locations and interviewing people in their spaces, not over zoom. And I think if we have the possibility to do that, That would be a great way to, expand the show in the future.

John Puma: 35:37
Yeah. Yeah. So w so we want to, we don’t travel

Timothy Sullivan: 35:42
We want to travel. And I think,

John Puma: 35:45
We want to get out of the house

Timothy Sullivan: 35:47
I think Japan is calling.

John Puma: 35:51
if only, so Mr. Sullivan, once again, thank you for being here with me for 50, uh, plus, uh, episodes of this show and thank you to everyone at home who has been listening. Uh, we, we do see the numbers increasing. We really appreciate it. Uh, you guys are telling your friends you’re subscribing. You are leaving us reviews

Timothy Sullivan: 36:19
and John I have to say thank you to you too. You are my favorite SUCKY nerd all time.

John Puma: 36:26
I guess hurrah, uh, hopefully next year we’ll do another one of these episode. 100. Yeah. Can you leave it? I mean, we’ve got a ways to go, but we’ll get there. We’ll get there. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so where can our fans find you on the internet to Mr. Sullivan?

Timothy Sullivan: 36:48
well, I am at everything Urban Sake So if you go to Instagram, if you go to Twitter, You can find me @UrbanSake And also my website is UrbanSake.com And how about you, Mr. Puma? Where can

John Puma: 37:02
Uh, I am often @JohnPumaNYC on social media. I am also often @TheSakeNotes. The Sake notes tends to be at the more sake, uh, focused stuff. if you do want to come and chit chat with me, go over to Reddit’s R slash sake, and there’s a link to our discord there. And by our, I mean, the Reddit’s discord, uh, it’s not officially the sake revolution this court, um, and you can come and, uh, to chat with us about sake and then also every Thursday night we get together on zoom and have a couple of drinks. Occasionally Tim joins us, but, but usually not because he doesn’t, he doesn’t keep sake in the house.

Timothy Sullivan: 37:43
Too much in the house. All right. Well, fantastic. I want to thank our listeners so much for tuning in. Thank you for 50 great episodes. We’re so glad that you’re listening and we hope you’re enjoying our show. If you’d like to support sake revolution, one way you can really help us out would be to take a couple of minutes and leave us a written review on Apple podcasts. It’s a great way for us to get the word out about our show.

John Puma: 38:08
Another great way to get the word out is by telling your friend and then subscribing and then need to get your friends. Describe you guys. You guys know that deal with this. You don’t know what to say already. Um, but yes, please subscribe. Tell your friends, bring more people into the revolution. Uh, you know, this is, uh, this is a small endeavor. It is just Tim and I doing this. It’s a two man job for the most part, and you know, the websites, uh, something that we do, the editing, the production, the whole thing as addition to being your faithful hosts. And we are very glad that you guys, uh are out here listening.,

Timothy Sullivan: 38:45
And as always, always, always, if you would like to learn more about any of the sakes we’ve tasted or any of the topics we talked about in today’s episode, just visit our website, sake revolution.com. Do not mistake it for SUCKY revolution, but SakeRevolution.com for all the details. Show notes. It’s a common AI mistake, Sucky revolution. But no, we are at SakeRevolution.com. Please check it out for all the detailed show notes.

John Puma: 39:13
And if you have Sake questions that you need answered, if you have topics that we have somehow not covered, that you really, really, really want us to get on top of get at us. The email address is [email protected]. So until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake and KANPAI!

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