Episode 97 Show Notes
Episode 97. Week in and week out, our standard gear for tasting and evaluating sake is a simple wine glass. This works really well and almost everybody has one nearby. But in Japan, there are a wide variety of shapes, materials and sizes used to make cups for drinking sake. That got us wondering if we should take some other cups out for a test drive and compare them to our usual stemware. Let’s start by taking a look at one of the most traditional sake cups there is – the ceremonial Sakazuki. This wide and shallow saucer-like cup is footed and often holds just a sip or two of sake. They can be made of ceramic, metal, lacquered wood and even glass. Most commonly seen at a Japanese shinto wedding ceremony, these cups scream tradition – but how do they stack up to our wine glass in terms enjoying taste and aroma? Listen in to the first in a series of sake vessel smackdowns! #sakerevolution
Skip to: 00:19
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
What is a Sakazuki?
Sakazuki is a type of shallow, footed sake cup that is often used for ceremonial purposes. Traditionally, they are most often made from wood with a lacquer finish but can also be found made from metal. They often contain no more than a sip of two of sake. Because of their shallow depth, they require concentration and intent to hold and sip from, so they are ideal for ceremonial use. You often see sakazuki used at shinto shrines for ceremonies such as “san san ku do” wedding ritual.
Skip to: 06:23
“SAN SAN KU DO” (Three Three Nine Times) Shinto Ceremony
Matsu no Midori Junmai Daiginjo
Brewery: Yamamoto Honke
Classification: Junmai Daiginjo
Rice Type: Hattannishiki
Brand: Matsu No Midori (松の翆)
Importer: JFC (USA)
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Episode 97 Transcript
John Puma: 0:21
Hello everybody. And welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America’s first sake podcast, and I am your host, John Puma may know me from the Sake Notes or as the administrator over at the Internet Sake Discord. Uh, over on this podcast though, I am your old fashion sake nerd guy.
Timothy Sullivan: 0:47
And I’m your host Timothy Sullivan. I am a sake samurai, sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website and every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand.
John Puma: 1:05
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, Tim. It is a pleasure to be back here, recording with you once again, another, another week.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:13
John Puma: 1:14
Yeah, and we’re, Tim, I don’t know how to tell you this, but we’re at episode 97. Now.
Timothy Sullivan: 1:21
Oh, my that sounds exciting.
John Puma: 1:23
Now we’re creeping up, creeping up on the big, bad 100, you know, maybe, maybe we should do something special enough to let the see, we’ll see what happens with
Timothy Sullivan: 1:35
put our thinking caps on.
John Puma: 1:37
Yeah, well, let’s put our thinking caps on, but for the more immediate concern, what is this week’s episode going to be about? What does episode 97 all about,
Timothy Sullivan: 1:46
well, I thought it might be fun to explore sake drinking vessels. Since we started this podcast, you and I have been drinking out of wine glasses for almost everything we’ve tried.
John Puma: 1:58
yeah. Wineglasses via official. sake drinking vessel of Sake Revolution, but there are, there are many others.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:08
the official glass of the revolution is the white wine glass
John Puma: 2:12
I love it. I love it.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:14
but there are many different vessels or cups for drinking sake. And I thought it. might be fun to try some of them and compare them to a wine glass. So. Short series of smack downs between more traditional sake cups and our, our week in week out wine glass. What do you think?
John Puma: 2:36
Uh, wait, wait, there’s this, this is, is this a new series
Timothy Sullivan: 2:40
I didn’t want to say it, but
John Puma: 2:43
I’m in, I’m sold. Let’s do it.
Timothy Sullivan: 2:45
until we run out of sake cup styles. This is a new series.
John Puma: 2:49
Okay, good. so where are we starting with this?
Timothy Sullivan: 2:52
We should start with The most traditional style of sake cup. And we are talking about the Sakazuki.
John Puma: 3:01
The sakazuki that’s the, um, I’m not gonna lie here, Tim. The first time I encountered one of these, I thought it was a saucer.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:10
So John, why don’t you describe what a a sakazuki looks like for our listeners?
John Puma: 3:16
Uh, it is a shallow, a wide drinking vessel and, and, you know, joking aside, it does really remind one of, of a, a bit of a saucer. I don’t know any other situations where I’ve seen cups that are this shallow, do you,
Timothy Sullivan: 3:38
No, it’s it, it doesn’t hold a lot. very,
John Puma: 3:43
but, but you know, the wider they are, you can still hold a lot. You just need to be very patient about how wide it’s going to be.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:52
Yeah. So it kind of looks like a soy sauce plate, right?
John Puma: 3:55
That is an excellent, excellent descriptor.
Timothy Sullivan: 3:59
and it has a foot on it. So it’s raised up about half an inch.
John Puma: 4:05
Yeah. About half an inch.
Timothy Sullivan: 4:06
footed. The sakazuki that I brought today is a three inches across and one inch tall and it is a shallow saucer
John Puma: 4:18
Timothy Sullivan: 4:19
has a F raised up on a little foot and it can probably hold at most. One and a half ounces of sake at the most
John Puma: 4:28
Hmm at most and that’s, and it’s getting to the edge there. So you have to be very careful when you’re getting about one and a half ounce, uh, level. Uh, is that, um, a lacquer or,
Timothy Sullivan: 4:39
It’s the one I brought today is a lacquer.
John Puma: 4:43
Timothy Sullivan: 4:44
This one is made out of wood. So they carve it out a very thin wood, and then they apply many layers of lacquer and that ends up giving it a plasticky, very smooth and silky finish to it. And because it’s made out of wood, it’s even lighter than if it was solid plastic. So. Uh, it’s a very much lighter than you’d expect, and this is a, not an expensive one, but it is a real lacquer sakazuki. And I understand you brought one to John. Why don’t you describe yours?
John Puma: 5:18
I did I did. Mine was a, uh, is a, it’s actually a sake brand, a promotional item. mine is a little bit deeper than yours and it is made of ceramic, but by and large, they are very, very similar. Uh, I assume I’d be able to hold a little bit more sake in mine and that, uh, being ceramic, it also probably weighs a bit
Timothy Sullivan: 5:38
John Puma: 5:39
Uh, and this is for actually a Tamagawa branded. Uh, sakazuki. do not remember where I came across it, but I’m pretty sure it was in Japan,
Timothy Sullivan: 5:48
okay. So yours is like a white ceramic with a logo at the bottom, right?
John Puma: 5:53
Yeah, exactly. And it does have the foot like yours is too.
Timothy Sullivan: 5:56
Yep. So their footed shallow, very wide cups and not all too. practical
John Puma: 6:04
No, no, not very,
Timothy Sullivan: 6:06
so, uh, so John if you visited Japan, where would you most likely see one of these sakazuki?
John Puma: 6:13
uh, this is for ceremony. My understanding is at least so I’ve seen them for some, some ceremonies at festivals. I’ve seen them used for weddings, things
Timothy Sullivan: 6:23
Hmm. Yeah. That’s absolutely right. There are ceremonial sake cups. They’re often used in Shinto ceremonies, like you said, the most common usage of them that. I think you would see in Japan is at a Japanese wedding. There’s a ceremony called San San Kudo. Have you ever heard of that
John Puma: 6:47
Timothy Sullivan: 6:49
John Puma: 6:50
san san kudo. Is that, is it meant to be like three, three something, something
Timothy Sullivan: 6:57
It’s 3, 3, 3, 9 times.
John Puma: 7:01
3, 3, 9 times. Oh, cool. I think of like, okay. I think of like cute,
Timothy Sullivan: 7:05
Yeah. It’s sons song
John Puma: 7:07
kudo 3, 3, 9 times.
Timothy Sullivan: 7:10
And it is part of a very traditional Japanese wedding ceremony. And let me describe really quickly what that’s all about. So there’s a stack of three sakazuki, one stacked on top of the other, and then the. The Shinto maiden is going to come out and the bride and groom are, uh, there as well. And the first top cup is given to the groom and then using three small pores, the Shinto maiden pours the sake into the first cup and then using three small small sips the groom, drinks sake out of the first cup. And then the cup is given to the bride, the same cup and she drinks three sips out of the sake cup. And then they moved to the middle cup. And then it’s three sips for the groom, three sips for the bride, and then the bottom cup, three sips for the groom, three sips for the bride. So it’s three steps. And the reason three is so important is that it cannot be evenly divided.
John Puma: 8:18
Timothy Sullivan: 8:21
the number three is a lucky number associated with weddings, cause it can’t be split evenly. You know, they don’t really take three sips each time they take. Uh, pretend to do two and then they take the real sip on the third one, but it’s a symbolic three sips. And that’s always using the sakazuki cups
John Puma: 8:41
now I have a question for you. Uh, are these the same size as the one that, that you have? For example, it holds the one and a half ounce.
Timothy Sullivan: 8:48
well they’re graduated.
John Puma: 8:49
Oh, okay. Okay. So large, a smaller, larger, larger,
Timothy Sullivan: 8:52
Yeah. They get slowly larger.
John Puma: 8:54
Timothy Sullivan: 8:55
They gradually get larger as you go down and they kind of nest one on top of the other. Now, the reason that this style is so good for ceremonies is because, you know, you are only taking a small symbolic sip of sake. So the volume is just right. And when you pick up one of these cups, it is not easy to move it around without spilling, right?
John Puma: 9:17
No, it’s not
Timothy Sullivan: 9:19
you have to hold it basically with two hands and.
John Puma: 9:23
going to be very careful.
Timothy Sullivan: 9:24
have to focus on the sake. You have to concentrate on what you’re doing. So it’s ideal for those thoughtful ceremonial times. When you are getting married, you better be paying attention.
John Puma: 9:39
you know, I don’t know Tim. I mean, there’s, uh, there’s enough going on when you’re getting married that you have to, you’re already juggling 50 different things. You’re nervous. You’re really, you know, you might have, you, might’ve had a drink or two already just kind of calm your nerves a little bit. And on top of that, you’ve got to balance this tiny glass. It’s very, I guess, almost like a saucer,
Timothy Sullivan: 9:58
John Puma: 9:58
it’s a whole new level of concern.
Timothy Sullivan: 10:01
Yeah. So there’s John, I have to tell you about one other ceremony that uses these sake Suki cups.
John Puma: 10:07
Timothy Sullivan: 10:08
So when, when you have the marriage, the bride is becoming a part of the groom’s family. So it’s a way to, to join, join the family. So the bride is kind of being adopted into the groom’s family. So there’s a connection between like these, this exchange of sipping from the cup and family adoption. So there’s a similar ceremony that is done in the Yakuza. so
John Puma: 10:34
Uh, so the family,
Timothy Sullivan: 10:36
Yeah. the family, so if you are joining the Yakuza and you’re pledging your allegiance to a particular crime family house to join. You actually sit with the boss and you do a ceremony where you, you sip out of the same cup. And then the person joining wraps up the cup at the end and puts it in his pocket as a forever reminder of his commitment. So it’s a marriage ceremony in a way, but it’s more like. Joining being adopted into the crime family by sipping out of a sakazuki. So it’s, it’s, uh, you don’t see that very
John Puma: 11:15
No, I think I do. And it’s funny. I was just talking about the pressure on the bride and the groom during the marriage ceremony. I’m going to imagine for a moment that maybe that pales in comparison to stress going on for your, uh, your your Yakuza family adoption. Uh, you know, generally speaking, I think you get to keep your fingers. If at the wedding ceremony, you spill a little sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 11:39
Yeah, definitely stressful. But, uh, I think that gives a little bit of historical and cultural context to this particular cup. And if you want to see a video of the wedding ceremony. You can check out our show [email protected] and we’ll have a YouTube video embedded there where you can see this three sips, nine times situation going on.
John Puma: 12:05
Then you can follow along at home having three sips, nine times as well. Uh, we recommend you take a sip every time though,
Timothy Sullivan: 12:13
Absolutely. Let’s talk about the materials used to make these sakazuki. So I’d mentioned mine was lacquer. Yours was, um, ceramic or porcelain, right? Yep.
John Puma: 12:25
we have porcelain. Okay. Uh, and I got to say like, I’m very jealous. Yours looks extremely fancy. Very nice. It looks, uh, has, it has a lot of, um, chutzpah to it.
Timothy Sullivan: 12:38
John Puma: 12:39
Japanese lacquer is something else it’s like really impressive.
Timothy Sullivan: 12:42
They also make them out of metals. So you can get it with, uh, uh, silver or tin or called plated silver. So you often see them and they, they sell them in sets of three sometimes just like that you would need for the,
John Puma: 12:56
three thing going. Got it. cool. I like
Timothy Sullivan: 12:59
the graduated stacks, or you can buy them individually. And if you go to Japan and you visit an antique shop, you’ll often find a lot of these because they’re not used for daily use, but, um, they’re really great to have.
John Puma: 13:12
And I, and I wonder if they are leftover from, uh, from the weddings or if they are leftover from the yakuza guys, had to keep them for the rest of their lives. And, you know,
Timothy Sullivan: 13:24
John Puma: 13:25
uh, I believe we’re also going to be sipping some sake out of both this vessel and our traditional. Wineglass today, do a little compare and contrast about how, what, what qualities it brings out of the sake. sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:42
John Puma: 13:43
So with that, maybe we start talking about our sake this week.
Timothy Sullivan: 13:48
sure. Well, we wanted to pick something that was billed as having a little bit of fragrance to it because we want to explore how you perceive the fragrance in a more open cup versus a standard wine glass. So I’m really curious to taste the same sake from two different vessels. Definitely. So, John, why don’t you tell us what sake we’ve got today?
John Puma: 14:11
Yes, of course today we have the, uh, Matsuno Midori, uh, that is from Yamamoto Honke in Kyoto. And this is, a Junmai Daiginjo and the Seimaibuai, the rice milling is 50% and the rice that’s being milled is hattan-nishiki, which I believe we have talked about in .The past when going over, uh, discussing hiroshima. And the sake meter, value that a nihonshudo the measurement of, uh, potentially dry to sweet, uh, is plus five. Oh. and the alcohol percentage is 15.8. very specific. I know sometimes we get like a, a range and like 15.8 notes. Exactly. This,
Timothy Sullivan: 15:02
Yep. And that’s what the bottle says. And this is billed as a fragrant type of sake and the. yamamoto honke brewery and Kyoto was established in 1677. So another brewery that’s older than our country yet another.
John Puma: 15:26
Timothy Sullivan: 15:27
So it’s easy to pour sake from a bottle into the wine glass, but pouring sake into a sakazuki cup that very shallow. Again, we’re only going to get about an ounce of sake in here. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to pour my sake from the bottle into a small carafe, and then I’m going to use that to pour into the sakazuki, cause you need a lot more control. So let’s go ahead and get this first into the wine glass.
John Puma: 15:56
Timothy Sullivan: 15:59
All right. So it’s a nice, transparent sake, very clear.
John Puma: 16:05
Timothy Sullivan: 16:06
And, uh, let’s give it a smell. This is a Junmai Daiginjo but this is not our classic. Junmai Daiginjo aroma, especially from kyoto. has a little bit more funkiness to it in the aroma. Doesn’t it?
John Puma: 16:20
Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of. Uh, I’ve definitely had sake in this style before. Uh, actually I’ve had sake in this style from kyoto before. So maybe it’s something a little bit regional.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:34
Hm. Well, there’s ricey-ness in the aroma.
John Puma: 16:40
Timothy Sullivan: 16:41
John Puma: 16:42
there’s something I can’t quite place that I, I, I, oh, drive me crazy. It’s like right on the tip of my tongue.
Timothy Sullivan: 16:51
John Puma: 16:52
Yeah. It’s um, or some kind of earthiness, uh, maybe, maybe it’ll come to me when we sip it.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:00
All right. So we’re still in our wine glass. And, uh, let’s go ahead and give this a taste. Hm.
John Puma: 17:12
Well, that’s nice and clean and dry
Timothy Sullivan: 17:15
It’s very smooth. It has a bit, of richness to it.
John Puma: 17:19
there is some richness there’s um, it’s mushroom is the
Timothy Sullivan: 17:23
Uh, it’s savory. Yeah. There’s umami on the finish, right? Well, this is not the Junmai Daiginjo. I was expecting.
John Puma: 17:32
No, no. Um, it’s got a, you know, that, that it’s got a rich dry finish and it’s, it’s certainly interesting. It’s definitely a little bit different than again, different than what, what I come to expect when, when I have a Junmai Daiginjo but yeah, that’s a, the nice thing about sake is that can be 10,000 different things.
Timothy Sullivan: 17:56
Yeah. 10,000 ways.
John Puma: 17:58
Okay. Right. That was,
Timothy Sullivan: 18:01
John Puma: 18:01
I was making.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:02
Yes, Ban Ryu. So we have. We have our sakazuki. And I’m really curious to taste this savory a little bit funky Junmai Daiginjo and pour this into the sakazuki. So I’m going to use my small carafe.
John Puma: 18:23
I’m going to use my wine glass.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:25
Okay. So I’ve got a, sip in here. Now, the first thing I’m going to try and smell from the sakazuki. It’s almost.
John Puma: 18:37
Timothy Sullivan: 18:38
to smell it. I
John Puma: 18:40
a, yeah, I want to say that, you know, putting, uh, putting sake into a, a platter is not the most, um, it’s not the easiest way to continue to express the aroma.
Timothy Sullivan: 18:52
Yeah. I mean, it’s almost shocking how different the experiences smelling one and the other
John Puma: 18:59
Totally. I can’t get anything out of this aroma wise. Like, you know, we, we literally just went in depth about what the aroma was and I can’t get anything now because it’s just not being funneled towards me because it’s just a function of that glass.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:15
And how are you feeling holding this? Like, I feel like I mentioned before. Yeah. You have to pay attention.
John Puma: 19:21
I feel nervous, Tim,
Timothy Sullivan: 19:22
I’m holding it with two hands.
John Puma: 19:24
uh, as am I.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:25
Yeah. And it just, again, it focuses your attention on this cup. So.
John Puma: 19:31
Yeah. And like I said, your, my cup has more depth than yours. So I have a little bit more freedom to, I have a little more literal wiggle room. You are, you’re a little more into the gun there. I think.
Timothy Sullivan: 19:44
All right. Let’s give it a taste and sip from our sakazuki. Hm.
John Puma: 19:56
That is weirdly. The flavor is a little bit more pronounced to me.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:01
I was going to say that too. I think I know what’s happening.
John Puma: 20:04
All right. Please tell me, cause I have no idea.
Timothy Sullivan: 20:06
Well, when you sip out of this low flat saucer, it pushes the sake more directly onto your palate. It’s the center of gravity is very low here you’re not tipping your head back. You’re tipping the cup up
John Puma: 20:26
Timothy Sullivan: 20:27
and it, it lets the sake hit your palate very directly. But I, I totally agree with what you said. it’s like the flavor is
John Puma: 20:36
Much it’s. Yeah, it’s much more intense. Uh, I also, I was wondering if maybe, cause you’re not getting any aroma, you’re not like braced in any way. It’s just like the flavor hits you with nothing else around it. Like when your, your nose isn’t involved at all. It’s very unusual. there’s. There is definitely. A different experience, having this at a different vessel. There’s no two ways about it. This is, you know, it’s definitely real. Like this is something that is a, you know, all we did was changed the vessel we’re drinking out of, and we’re having a very different experience with the exact same sake.
Timothy Sullivan: 21:07
It’s so interesting because you, you would expect that the aroma would be more dispersed in the wide open saucer, like sakazuki but I was not expecting the flavor to be more pronounced from the sakazuki. That is really surprising.
John Puma: 21:24
Hm. So one thing about sakazuki that, um, well, for me, when I encounter them and, you know, I think on the occasion that I got this cup, especially. On the occasion. I got this cup as well, is that oftentimes when I go to a bar that, uh, it is warming up sake. So if they, if I go to like a con sake bar, uh, They will often pour it into one of the, into a ceramic, uh, sake Suki. And I don’t know if that’s, uh, has anything to do with wanting to make the aroma less prominent and make it more about the taste hitting you all at once when you warm it up much. Sure. But it’s definitely something I’ve encountered, uh, quite a few times in Japan. Is that when I go someplace that’s warming up sake, they will often times use this, this flatter wider a vessel to drink it out of.
Timothy Sullivan: 22:27
Hm. So you’ve seen, you’ve seen the sakazuki used for warm sake in Japan.
John Puma: 22:34
Timothy Sullivan: 22:34
Okay. You know, I have. a theory, not a hundred percent sure what each sake places thinking, but. You know, we’ve mentioned a few times that the portion of sake is very small. And if you’re really focused on the temperature, pouring a few sips allows you to maintain the temperature for that sip. And then the barkeeper is going to pour you another sip. And it’s a way to really control that temperature. It’s not sitting in the cup getting cooler as you chit-chat.
John Puma: 23:05
Um, Tim has an excellent point. It sits in the craft the entire time you pour a little bit into there, you sip it up. It only holds a little bit, so you’re all good.
Timothy Sullivan: 23:13
John Puma: 23:14
Timothy Sullivan: 23:15
Yeah. And these, these sakazuki also require interaction between people, because if you can only set one ounce at a time, you need someone there to pour for you and you have to pour for them. So it demands that people interact with each other pour for each other. And. I think that is definitely an icebreaker in Japanese society and having this probably the smallest of all the vessels we’re going to be talking about one ounce at a time, really requires people to focus on the sake, interact with each other, or pay attention to the temperature. Very precisely pay attention to the sake. Very precisely. And, uh, yeah, it’s really fun to drink.
John Puma: 24:02
Yeah, I think that, you know, one of the things we’re going to get out of this, uh, out of this series is that comparison experience is, is the ability to, to go in there and, uh, explore how different sake is going to taste and how different it’s going to smell. And we changed the vessel up on it. we’ve done this one time now and we’ve already had a really interesting shift in how we experienced this, uh, this Matsu. No Midori,
Timothy Sullivan: 24:36
there’s one other there’s one other situation when I’ve seen sakazuki used home
John Puma: 24:46
Timothy Sullivan: 24:47
John Puma: 24:48
Timothy Sullivan: 24:49
And there is a new year’s tradition called. Otoso have you ever heard about that? Otoso.
John Puma: 24:56
have heard of a Tosoh, but I’ve never partaken in otoso.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:00
Oh, Toso is a new year’s sake that is kind of infused with herbs and spices that don’t make it more delicious, but they’re supposed to bring you good health for the year. So in traditional Japanese households on new year’s, you are going to drink, otoso sake. And very, very often you see it served at home out of these ceremonial sakazuki cups, and that is something. All the members of the family would drink to fortify their health for the year. And that’s another situation where I’ve seen sakazuki in real life in people’s homes. So.
John Puma: 25:45
love the idea of, uh, of, of, you know, sake a on here is to health.
Timothy Sullivan: 25:52
John Puma: 25:54
Timothy Sullivan: 25:54
seven secret herbs and spices, the Colonel’s secret recipe otoso,
John Puma: 26:01
Yes, 11 herbs and spices and sakeer 11 earth. And okay, there we go. Um, so let’s circle back to the, the sake itself for a moment. And let’s talk about food. If you want to have another sip to refresh your, your opinions on, on where to go with this.
Timothy Sullivan: 26:25
I’m going to sip out of my sake. Kazuki um, as it’s getting warmer, the savoriness is really coming out more earthy mushroom E not at all. What I expected from a Junmai daiginjo. Not at all.
John Puma: 26:44
So since this is, you know, not your average Junmai Daiginjo and it is a lot more savory is rich has that, that, that rich, that earthy mushroomy note to it. This is going to be much more food friendly than your average Junmai Daiginjo as well. I think.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:06
Yeah, it would pair really well with something savory.
John Puma: 27:09
Yeah. Like, I think that you can get away with a little bit more, a little bit something a little bit more heavy than your average, uh, than your average Daiginjo. Cause I think a lot of the time, those are very light and you want to, you don’t, you know, you don’t want anything that’s gonna interfere. So you go with something really light to go with it. So you have like, you’re sashimi, I think it’s like that that’s going to light flavors that can go with light flavors and you’re going to be in a good place but. This. This can, can it get down a little bit more with when you’re, when you’re adding a little more flavor, a little more, umami to your, do your dishes, a little more autumnal dishes perhaps, winter dishes.
Timothy Sullivan: 27:49
and we also have to mention that this would be great served at room temperature or even warm, I think. What do you think about temperature for this?
John Puma: 27:57
I agree. A hundred percent. I think that this was something that would get along really well with warmth. And you, you prove that out a little bit by having that in your, uh, in your sakazuki, because it’s going to want, you know, a small amount of sake, it’s going to warm up very quickly when it’s flattened out like that. A lot of surface
Timothy Sullivan: 28:17
surface area. Yes. That’s why you don’t want it sitting around in such a small little container. You can take the sip, enjoy it, focus on it. And then. Do another when you’re ready. But I think that the exposure to the air is going to bring this up to room temperature pretty quickly and really focused that savory flavor, even more, really, really interesting. I think that, uh, this is a really unique style of sake. I do want to mention though that it’s also very, very smooth.
John Puma: 28:57
It is, it is. And that’s, um, that’s one of the most interesting things about it. I want to say because, You know, I’ve, I’ve experienced a lot of these, uh, flavor profiles before in, um, in Yamahai or Kimoto, which aren’t always, aren’t always the smoothest because they’re trying to be a little bit more, you know, a little more rough and tumble, um, that may not be the right way to put that, but whatever.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:20
perfect. I love it.
John Puma: 29:21
but this is smooth. It is really it’s doing it has those flavor profiles, but it’s nice and smooth.
Timothy Sullivan: 29:31
Yeah. It has almost the texture. The texture is almost like June my Daiginjo texture. Like it’s a, little bit silky and it’s very, very smooth. But then the flavor profile is like, yo, uh, I’m a umami over here and it doesn’t match up completely in my mind. I think served warm. It would take it to another level. So next time I opened this bottle that we have here. I think I’m going to try to warm it up and it’s still cold outside. It’s still the, winter time. So I’m going to try this warm. Next time I opened up this bottle.
John Puma: 30:11
it sounds like a plan to me.
Timothy Sullivan: 30:13
Wow. Well, this was a fun experiment. I have to say. sakazuki versus wine glass. And do we want to preview any other vessels coming down the pike or do
John Puma: 30:26
Um, well, well, what are your, what are some of your favorites? What do you like to drink out of?
Timothy Sullivan: 30:31
Well, there’s the classic ochoko you can’t with that. That’s the classic ceramic sake cup. There’s a variation, uh, called a guinomi
John Puma: 30:42
Timothy Sullivan: 30:43
a little bit larger, more
John Puma: 30:45
Timothy Sullivan: 30:45
John Puma: 30:46
I’m looking forward to the, to the, the masu.
Timothy Sullivan: 30:50
Oh Yeah. We’ve talked
John Puma: 30:51
Timothy Sullivan: 30:52
a lot on this podcast.
John Puma: 30:54
I wonder if my sake out of a box. Um,
Timothy Sullivan: 30:57
Yeah, so we have some really fun. sake cups and shapes coming down the pike. We hope you’ll stay tuned to our wineglass SmackDown series.
John Puma: 31:11
I don’t know if that’s all going to end up calling it, let us write in and let us know if you think that if you think that that’s the best name, I’m ready.
Timothy Sullivan: 31:23
Well, just like there’s different styles of sake for different sake lovers. I think there’s different vessels for different sake lovers. And this is just such a fun experiment to see how it affects the perception. It’s the same sake, but it reads totally different in these two different glasses. So
John Puma: 31:39
Yeah. And that’s really the most, uh, the fun part for me, I’m really, you know, I really love that aspect
Timothy Sullivan: 31:46
yeah, really interesting. Well, this was a lot of fun. I’m looking forward to our next sake vessel SmackDown and, uh, thanks John, for, uh, sipping with me today. This was a really interesting to explore
John Puma: 31:59
it’s always a pleasure, Tim. Thank you.
Timothy Sullivan: 32:02
And I also want to thank our listeners for tuning in. We really do hope that you’re enjoying our show. if you would like to show your support for sake revolution, the best way to support us now is to join our community on Patreon. We’re a listener supported show and all the support we receive from our patrons allows us to host, edit and produce a podcast for you each and every week.
John Puma: 32:26
And if you want to find out some information about our Patreon, please visit Patreon.com/SakeRevolution. Uh, we really appreciate all of our patrons without you guys. It really isn’t a show. you can also support us by leaving a review at apple podcasts or any other podcast platform of choice, that really drives the needle gets to this podcast into new ears, which is what we’re all about here. Uh, and of course you can always just tell some friends, tell some family, push it on them, give them all, you know, in the first one free, know, how it works.
Timothy Sullivan: 33:04
And as always to learn more about any of the topics or individual sakes we talked about in this, or in any of our episodes, be sure to visit our website, SakeRevolution.com. And there you can see the show notes And a written transcript of each and every episode.
John Puma: 33:20
And want to reach out to us directly, or if you have sake questions that you need answered, we would love to hear from you. Please reach out to us. The email address is [email protected] You also have the option of sliding into our DMS over on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Uh, on Instagram, we are, uh, @SakeRevolutionPod and we are a @SakeRevolution everywhere else. So grab your sakazuki. This is our favorite part of the podcast until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake. And Kanpai.