Episode 21 Show Notes

Season 1. Episode 21. Travel anywhere in the world and the standard wine bottle will be the same size – 750ml. But in Japan, the standard sake bottles measure 720ml. What gives? Well, wouldn’t you know that sake has a unique system of measuring volume – and it’s all based off of one “go”. What’s “go” you ask? A “Go” is equal to 180 milliliters… that’s about 6 ounces. All the primary measurements of sake volume are based off this starting point. The next level up is called a “sho” – that would be 1.8 Liters or 10 “go”. Next we have a “to” (pronounced toe) measurement. One “to” is equal to 18 Liters. Finally there is the “koku” measurement. One Koku is equal to 1,000 “go”, or 100 “to”. It’s a unique measurement system, but when you break it down, it’s pretty easy to understand. In Japan, when visiting a restaurant, sake is often ordered by the “go”… or 180ml serving. One go, two go etc. and a Koku is important for sake breweries to measure their yearly production output. One koku again is 180 liters. Large breweries produce 20, 30 or 40 thousand koku! Small family run breweries might produce a few hundred koku per year. It’s a unique measuring system, but go, sho, to and koku are all ways for us to measure our sake!

Skip to: 00:19 Hosts Welcome and Introduction
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy

Skip to: 04:15 Sake Education Corner: Measuring Sake Volume

Mentioned in this episode:

Sake Masu (180 ML):

View our Measuring Sake Volume Chart:

Skip to: 20:11 Sake Introductions

Timothy and John introduce the sakes that they are tasting this week.

Skip to: 23:17 Sake Tasting: Yuki Otoko Junmai Cup Sake

Yuki Otoko Junmai Cup Sake

Brewery: Aoki Shuzo (Niigata)
Classification: Junmai
Acidity: 1.2
Alcohol: 15.5%
Prefecture: Niigata
Seimaibuai: 60%
SMV: +12.0
Rice Type: Miyamanishiki
Importer: Niigata Sake Selections
Brand: Yukiotoko (雪男)

View On UrbanSake.com

Skip to: 26:37 Sake Tasting: Sake Tasting: Mutsu Otokoyama Classic Futsushu Cup Sake

Sake Tasting: Mutsu Otokoyama Classic Futsushu Cup Sake

Brewery: Hachinohe Shuzo
Classification: Futsushu
Acidity: 1.3
Alcohol: 15.0%
Prefecture: Aomori
Seimaibuai: 75%
SMV: +5.0
Rice Type: Mashigura
Importer: Mutual Trading (NY)

View On UrbanSake.com

Skip to: 30:05 Show Closing

This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!

Episode 21 Transcript

John Puma: 0:21
Hello, and welcome to Sake Revolution. America’s first sake podcast. I’m your host, John Puma from TheSakeNotes.com. Also the administrator of the internet Sake Discord, and an all-around sake nerd.

Timothy Sullivan: 0:35
And I’m your host, Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai, sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website and together John and I will be tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. So John, you know what, I’ve been listening to some of our episodes and every week you say that you are a big sake nerd, and I’m just wondering what’s your definition of sake nerd these days?

John Puma: 1:04
Well, Tim first, I want to thank you for listening. somebodys got to. I’m glad you’re taking one for the team. Uh, um, yeah. I actually got called a sake nerd by several people and decided to,

Timothy Sullivan: 1:19
That’s a badge of honor.

John Puma: 1:20
I want to tell people about sake You get excited about sake Yeah. Seek out other interested parties and. Sip sake together and talk about it and compare notes. that’s a fun thing that we like to do. so too dissimilar from what you probably do in your free time, though.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:35
Yeah, I used to take Japanese lessons with this one Japanese guy. It was one of those situations where you like meet up at Starbucks and this guy was just new to New York and, he was kind of an anime. Nerd. And there’s this Japanese word? Otaku. Do you know otaku?

John Puma: 1:52
I do.

Timothy Sullivan: 1:53
Yeah. So he was explaining his interest. We were talking about, what’s your hobby? What’s my hobby. And he said, Oh, my hobby is anime. And my hobby is a manga. And I’m like, Oh, you’re an otaku. And he was like, don’t say that. For him being a true nerdy person. It was like a big putdown. But I think for us, it’s a real badge of honor to be a sake nerd.

John Puma: 2:19
Occasionally in Japan, when to try to explain to people what being a sake nerd, you know, Oh, why are you interested in sake well, me and my wife, I will say that we are Nihonshu, otaku, and…. that gets a laugh at the very least,

Timothy Sullivan: 2:35
It gets a reaction, right?

John Puma: 2:37
it gets a reaction. and I think that like, they, they immediately know that we’re very enthusiastic about sake and that’s, that’s the goal, right? That’s we want to convey that cause we are.

Timothy Sullivan: 2:47
Yeah. It’s one of those weird things about foreign languages. Sometimes you say a word and you don’t know the weight that that word carries for someone else. So when I said, otaku to that poor guy, he was like, Oh my God, don’t call me that. But for us, I think we’re really proud of it.

John Puma: 3:01
I think if you call yourself an otaku, it’s fine. I think if somebody else calls you that it’s insulting.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:07
Well, John, you can call me a sake otaku any day.

John Puma: 3:11
Uh, no, no, no, you, you are, you have actual titles like sensei and samurai, so I’m just gonna, I’m gonna let you have those and I’m going to

Timothy Sullivan: 3:19
Okay. You’re the otaku.

John Puma: 3:21

Timothy Sullivan: 3:22
So, I’ve been, keeping up with my samurai sensei and nerdy titles. I’ve been doing a lot of, sake shopping recently. I hope you’ve been keeping up your supply too.

John Puma: 3:35
Yeah, no, uh, I actually had a minor dilemma this weekend and I almost ran out of stuff. Okay.

Timothy Sullivan: 3:42
Egads ran out of sake?

John Puma: 3:45
Yeah, I, I planned ultra poorly. And then my backup plan, was good on paper, but you have to realize that if you don’t check the business hours of a place that you went to go buy sake from, it’s very easy for you to find out their closed when you get there.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:02
Yeah, especially in the Corona times that we live in, this just adds a layer of complication on top of everything.

John Puma: 4:11
Yeah. So always check the time before you decide you’re going to shop someplace.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:15
Absolutely. Well, I think that, it’s been a couple of weeks and we haven’t had a sake education corner, so I think it’s time for some learning.

John Puma: 4:23
I think a fun thing to talk about it. I think a fun thing to ask you since you did not almost run out of sake is your, technique then to buy very large bottles of sake or do you buy a normal sized bottles of sake or do you just get a massive amount of very small bottle of sake

Timothy Sullivan: 4:41
That’s a really good question. You know, you think. That I would get a lot of large bottles of sake and there’s many different sizes of bottles out there. But one of the problems for us, U.S. Consumers is that the largest sake bottles don’t easily fit in our refrigerators.

John Puma: 4:58
No, they don’t.

Timothy Sullivan: 4:59
they were not built for. The Japanese Magnum bottles.

John Puma: 5:03

Timothy Sullivan: 5:03
So that’s a big problem. the most affordable cost per ounce is the large 1.8 liter bottles. But they are a little bit hard to fit in. They don’t fit in the milk compartment the fridge.

John Puma: 5:18
I also, I like knowing that like buying by volume even applies to sake

Timothy Sullivan: 5:25
Well, that’s something we could talk about today. Why don’t we talk about different. sake sizes, like what you can expect and when you’re shopping, what you can look for and it all boils down to what we call a “go”. Are you familiar with this?

John Puma: 5:40
I’m familiar with a go

Timothy Sullivan: 5:43
Have you gone with a go.

John Puma: 5:45
yes. If I’m not mistaken, a go was a measurement for a rice, right? For, for shoveling up rice. Basically

Timothy Sullivan: 5:56
So in ye olden times in Japan,

John Puma: 5:59
olden times.

Timothy Sullivan: 6:00
the samurais were actually paid in rice. So your salary. If you were a samurai serving a Lord, you were paid a certain amount of rice every year. And, there is a. Square wooden box that you often see in Japanese restaurants called a MASU. And the volume of liquid that can fit in that MASU is 180 milliliters about six ounces. And this wooden box was originally a measure for dry rice and it kind of morphed into a drinking vessel and this unit of one MASU 180 ML. Is known as one go. So it’s a measurement called a go and that is considered one serving or a single unit of sake And all the other measurements in the world of sake are based off this one square box. And if you’ve never seen a MASU before, you’ve never seen this square wooden box, check out our show notes, and I’m going to put a picture on there of what a MASU looks like, but that’s considered one go. And in Japanese we would say ichi go.

John Puma: 7:08
Hmm, really, before we go on, Tim is going to be a picture of you with a Masu, perhaps drinking out of one a cause that I, that I think people would want to see that.

Timothy Sullivan: 7:18
no, it’s just going to be a MASU I’m I’m I’m anonymous here. So just the MASU and the reason that the GO is so important is because when you go to Japan, you can order your sake by the go. So if you go to an average izakaya or. sake pub or Japanese restaurant in Japan. And you said, say, I want to order some sake server might say one, go two goes, how many goes do you want? So it’s a unit that you actually order sake but it’s a very practical unit in Japan. So the carafes are usually by go so you can get one, go carafe to go carafe for three go. And the standard bottle 720 ML. That’s a standard sake bottle size. It’s four GOs. So it has four MASU worth of sake in it.

John Puma: 8:07
Hm, that makes an astonishing amount of sense.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:11
Yeah. So that’s where it’s all based off of the one thing that trips people up is that wine bottles around the entire world are all 750 ML and just sake bottles are 720 ML. It’s like, where did that? 30 milliliters go?

John Puma: 8:29
well, it did. It’s not from a go, I’ll tell you that.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:32
It went somewhere.

John Puma: 8:33
No. And in the US, most of the sake makers are using 750 milliliter wine bottles.

Timothy Sullivan: 8:43
Yes, the U S producers don’t have access to the 720 ML bottles, which are all produced and sold in Japan. So they use what’s available here, which are the local 750 ML bottles. So a lot of domestic makers of sake here in the U S use the 750 ML bottles.

John Puma: 9:00
Yeah. Imagine that if they tried to get 720 ML bottles or, had them custom made, it would drive up prices quite a bit.

Timothy Sullivan: 9:07
Yeah. So they’re just going to use what they have here. So those are the first two. Kind of measurements that we have. So one go, I can easily say ichi go. And then the Japanese word for four is “YON”. So this standard sake bottle the, 24 ounce is called a Yon-go-bin, which means a four go bottle, yon go bin. So that’s a four go bottle. You have one goal for the single MASU. That’s a single serving. And then the yon go bin or the four go bottle, that’s the standard sake bottle. And then there’s a few more measurements we can talk about going up the scale. So do you know what’s next after the yon go bin?

John Puma: 9:50
uh, well, for me, I always get very excited about the “issho bin”

Timothy Sullivan: 9:54
Yes. Issho Bin that’s right. So Bin means bottle. “ii” refers to one and then we have this next unit up is called the “sho”. So the sho is a unit for 10 go. So if we put 10 masus together, we’re going to get one “sho”. So they call it issho bin, which means a one sho bottle. So we had a yon go bin, that’s a four go bottle. And the 1.8 liter is 10 gos and that’s the Issho Bin. So there’s another unit called the “sho”.

John Puma: 10:30
Okay. And on the other end of that, we have our one cups, which I’m going to guess something right here, Tim, the one cups are one go,

Timothy Sullivan: 10:40

John Puma: 10:40

Timothy Sullivan: 10:41
One cups are one go. So at the very entry level scale, it’s considered like a single serving it’s six ounces. So one go can be a MASU, the square wooden box, or it can be a one cup. It can be one of those single serving cups. There are also small little, 180 ML bottles with a little screw cap on them. You see those sometimes to almost like the airplane size bottles, really small. So we have our. One go, which can be our one cup. We have our yon-go, our four go, which is our standard bottle. We have the “Issho” this is our Magnum bottle. Do you know what comes after that?

John Puma: 11:23
There’s, there’s another one.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:24
There’s two more,

John Puma: 11:25
OH!. All right. So I’m going to say, I’m going to be honest here. I kind of gave up after my refrigerator. Couldn’t take the isshobin. So, what else? Can’t my refrigerator take.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:35
The next level up is called a “to” T-O pronounced, like the toe on your foot,

John Puma: 11:41
Thats a Tobin?

Timothy Sullivan: 11:43
a Tobin, right? a Tobin is an 18 liter glass bottle.

John Puma: 11:49
I need this in my life.

Timothy Sullivan: 11:52
this is not used for commercial sale. This is something that brewers actually press directly into. So it’s like a glass jug that brewers are going to put under their press or under their fune press. And they’re going to drip, the sake right into a what’s called a Tobin or a 18 liter glass bottle. You can also have what’s called Itto Daru, or “Taru” which is a wooden barrel, and you’ve probably seen the wooden barrels outside shrines in Japan, like the sake barrels. And they’re all wrapped up with the logo stamped on the front. Those come in different sizes and the barrels are rated in to. So one TO is 18 liters, and then it goes up to. Four “to” or “Yon To”, and just like we had the Yon go. So we had that four go bottle. When you get to barrel sizes, you can get up to four to and the yon to, the big barrel is 72 liters. So that’s, that is roughly about 19 gallons, just for non metric people. And the one to that 18 liters is about, five gallons.

John Puma: 13:15
I’ll never run out of sake again.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:18
Yeah. So, we had the one go, the four go. No, we had the one sho, which is the 10 go or the one Issho Bin then moving into the barrel sizes. We have the ITTO, which has one to that’s 18 liters. And then we have the yon to, which is the four to barrel that 72 liters. And we’re getting pretty big, but there is one more measurement that is super duper important when it comes sake.

John Puma: 13:47
All right, I’m ready

Timothy Sullivan: 13:48
Okay. Go show to. And the next one is KOKU.

John Puma: 13:56
They broke the rhythm.

Timothy Sullivan: 13:57
They broke the rhythm.

John Puma: 13:58
clearly broke the rhythm. Um, tell me about the koku,

Timothy Sullivan: 14:03
the Koku is 180 liters. So it is

John Puma: 14:11
a. bathtub.

Timothy Sullivan: 14:13
bathtub.. It is actually a measurement that a brewery uses too. convey their output of volume. So a brewery will always say our brewery produces 3000 Koku a year. So if you go to Japan and you talk to a brewer, they’re not going to talk about liters. They’re not going to talk about gallons or bushels or anything. They always, always. Talk about koku and you have to picture, you know, the 1.8 Magnum bottles we talked about, Issho Bin? 100 of those. If you picture a pallet stacked up with 100 of those 1.8 liter bottles, that is one koku. So breweries are going to measure their output in this koku measurement. And just to give you an idea of what brewery put out a large brewery, maybe the one of the top 20 or 30 breweries in Japan, as far as output goes, they might make 30,000 Koku a year. And a small brewery family run brewery with two or three employees, they might make 400 or 500 koku a year. So you have this range from very small, to very large. The number of gallons in one koku is a 47.5. So almost 50 gallons in a koku it’s 180 liters.

John Puma: 15:36
That is a lot of sake So I have a question and that is, so the go is 180 and then everything we’ve talked about has been a multiple of that. Where do the 300 milliliter bottles fit in?

Timothy Sullivan: 15:56
That’s a great question. There’s a few odd ball sizes and those are just there for modern convenience. there’s 300 ML bottles. There’s 500 ML bottles. There’s360 ML bottles, which are exactly to go. So there’s a range of bottle sizes that don’t fit very neatly into this ancient pattern. But. for modern convenience purposes, we needed some other bottle sizes, so they don’t fit neatly into this flow, but it’s a good point to bring up that there are 300 ML bottles, there’s 500 ML bottles and a few different sizes in there. But for the majority of the most important sizes we use is all based off that 180 ML size, that six ounce size.

John Puma: 16:44
Nice. Well, we do get a lot of 300s here. We got a lot of 720s here. We don’t get a lot of isshobin probably because we have a hard time putting it in the refrigerator, but we are getting an increasing number of one cups, which I like.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:01
Yes we are. Absolutely. And I don’t know about you, John, but today I actually brought a one cup to taste.

John Puma: 17:11
so. Did I? How about that?

Timothy Sullivan: 17:13
So we both have our ones, the cups. Now I think one cups are incredibly fun. Do you remember when you discovered your first one cup?

John Puma: 17:24
I’m not sure, but I do remember the first time I was yeah. Really excited about it and it was getting ready to get on train, to travel in Japan. And it’s a, I want to say most of the major stations in Japan for most of the major train stations where you’d get a Shinkansen, they’re going to have a shop with a, usually a pretty generous selection of one cups. And they’re so convenient. You take them right out of there, right out of the refrigerated section and you pay for them. You get on the train with them and you are ready to travel for a few hours.

Timothy Sullivan: 17:59
So for our listeners who have never seen or heard of a one cup before, how would you describe the one cup experience?

John Puma: 18:06
Well, up experience. You were saying extra. Describe the one couple and say, well, it’s exactly one go.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:14
It’s exactly one

John Puma: 18:15
Yeah, 180 milliliters that way. So the one cup experience is it’s kind of it’s, it is very grab and go and, uh, no pun on the go. And they’re usually intent. Oh, you like that one?

Timothy Sullivan: 18:30
like that one.

John Puma: 18:32
They’re usually not resealable. So the idea is you have this cup, your opening it, and you are somewhat expected to finish it in one sitting.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:44
Yes. In one, go

John Puma: 18:45
In one go.

Timothy Sullivan: 18:48
the PUNS don’t stop. Okay. So it’s a single serving cup, but the thing about the one cup sake serving is that you peel off a foil top and then. The bottle itself is your cups. You drink out of the glass cup. in the West, we would call it like a jam jar shape. You know, it’s like a, it’s like a small juice cup and you peel off the seal off the top and then it is ready to go ready to drink and you don’t need to pour it into another cup. You drink it right out of the glass cup. And that is what’s amazing.

John Puma: 19:23
and my most favorite thing about them is a lot of these one cups have. painted on labels as opposed to paper labels. And those, the paints on labels are going to last through dishwashing. And a lot of them are beautiful and they make wonderful souvenirs to bring back. And now you can serve drinks out of them in your home, and you’ll know exactly what one go is when you’re pouring.

Timothy Sullivan: 19:50
I think every Japanese household has random one cups leftover people, use them for pen holders and for juice cups for orange juice. And they’re all over Japanese households. So you see them everywhere in Japan. So, John, why don’t you tell us what one cup you actually brought to taste today?

John Puma: 20:11
Sure. So I brought a one cup from a brewery I’m very fond of over in Aomori. It’s as North, as you can get without going to Hokkaido. And, uh, yeah, it’s Hachinohe Shuzo and they make a series of brands with the word “Mutsu” in it. And this is the Mutsu Otokoyama cup. The brand that I typically associate them with called Mutsu Hassen so that’s Mutsu 8,000. And I don’t know exactly what the eight thousands about, but the Otoko yama is man’s mountain or mountain man, and they are one of several, brands and breweries that make use of the Otokoyama term. I guess it’s generic enough that a lot of different companies have their hands in that jar. The most famous though is most, definitely over in Hokkaido. Uh, the Hokkaido based, Otakayama brewery. Yeah. this is a, Futsuu-shu and it uses a Hanafubuki rice, which is a local Aomori rice usually associated with junmai sakes, and it’s polished down to 55%, for the koji and 65 for the kake so they, they switched it up a little bit. And this is known for being extraordinarily dry. This is it’s the, Mutsu Otokoyama classic. Wait. So when you see classic on something, I just immediately assumed. Yeah, it’s going to be super dry when it’s a sake product. I just think that’s like the very old style is always going, something that is in the plus twenties, although this is not that way. This is only plus four

Timothy Sullivan: 21:57
When I see classic and the name of a sake I’m like, Oh, this is designed for old. Grandpa’s sitting in the train station like,

John Puma: 22:04
Oyaji stuff. Tim, what about you?

Timothy Sullivan: 22:08
Okay. I have a sake from Niigata surprise. Surprise. One of my favorite prefectures uh, this is, Yuki Otoko. So you can mean snow. And Otoko means, man, so snowman or what called like the Yeti. Yeah. So this is the snowman sake and the brewery is Aoki Shuzo. it’s in Niigata and, founded in 1717. Interestingly, you know, I. I did my internship one year in Niigata and I worked at Hakkaisan in Southern Niigata and this brewery is actually the next physically closest brewery to where I was living. and this is a Honjozo Sake. The rice milling is 65% and it uses a gohyakumangoku the local Niigata rice and also Koshi Buki. And for me, the SMV that measurement of sweetness to dryness is plus 8.5. So my Otoko Yama might be drier than your Otoko Yama. And, If you’ll indulge me, John I’ll go ahead and open mine up first. Yes. So I’m going to put a picture in our show notes, but for people, who are not able to check that, I’m going to describe the cup first. So it’s a clear glass cup and There’s a white printed logo on the front. And as you indicated before, John it’s like an ink print on the glass, so it won’t wash off. It’s not like a paper label and it is a picture of the. abominable snowman and he has two skis behind him because he’s going to go ski on the mountain and it is really cute and really adorable. So I’m going to go ahead and open this up. And again, this is a foil pull top, so we’re going to pull off with a little tab and open this up. All right. So I got that open and now in my hand, I have a. Cup ready to sip. I didn’t have to pour it into anything. It’s just ready to go.

John Puma: 24:13
you have one go.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:17
Ready to ichi go. Okay. So I’m going to give it a smell. Okay. It smells rice-y and it smells like it’s going to be dry in body. No fruit, maybe a little bit of that lactic kind of yogurt, aroma as well, but primarily rice-y. Hmm. Oh, wow. It’s dry.

John Puma: 24:41
Oh yeah.

Timothy Sullivan: 24:42
dry. It’s making my mouth pucker a little bit. It is a really crisp and dry. If you’re looking for an example of what dry means when you taste sake I really recommend this one as a great educational tool for what dry sake is. It has a really crisp finish on it. I think for anyone who knows about Niigata sake this is like a textbook example of a dry Niigata sake. It’s on the lighter side and the rice components and those little lactic components are subtle well integrated and not. showy in any way. I think that’s really something that’s so true to the Niigata style. Hmm. Yeah, really good. This makes me want to sit on the bullet train, but not my bento box and just sip away.

John Puma: 25:40
I think that, for one cups and I don’t know if there’s necessarily a reason for it, but in a lot of cases, they do tend to go more food friendly. They do tend to shy away from that Ginjo style that I am so fond of. they tend to be a little bit more rice forward. Like you’re mentioning a little drier, a little crisper, a little bit more ready for some bentos on the train. I think they know the market.

Timothy Sullivan: 26:05
Yes. It’s actually really hard to find a super premium floral, fruity sake in this one cup format. And I think many brewers themselves view the one cup as a more entry level format. Yeah. Where they think it’s easy to grab and go and, you know, not think about it too much. And as you said, just be really food friendly and not fussy. And I think that really informs which sake is the brewers pick to put in these one cups. So John, how about you? I’d love to hear about your sake

John Puma: 26:37
yeah, I have it right here. It also has an ink printed on label. Well, I guess we’ll call it a label with a very, very classic when we say classic, we mean classic. This looks very “old man”. A very old school, old style, just some, some fifties, your sixties style on this label here. Well, definitely have a photo of that in the show notes. And let’s open that up. We can’t pour for you guys today, so we’re gonna pop. There is very little in the way of aroma here. Like I am, I’m all. I almost have my nose in the cup and I still am not getting very much on it, but what is, there is a little bit rice-y and, um, a little bit a, honestly, a little boozy, a little alcohol ethanol in there. Hmm. The taste though. I mean, it is living up to its dry, advertising, but it’s okay. That’s a little bit more well-rounded than I was expecting. It is like this number one, this is begging for food. so this is not a, uh, an ideal scenario to be having this.sake. I think, I mean, I really think that this is not a sipping sort of thing. I think that in your case, probably similar. But there is a lot more subtlety and complexity to this. And I was expecting, I thought it was just going to be kind of just dry and in my face, but there is some really, really nice, kinda like nice texture to it. And some subtle hints of fruit in the front before it drowns you and dryness, clean flavor. Really nice. And again, food friendly. Tim. What’s your favorite train food. What’s your favorite shinkansen food?

Timothy Sullivan: 28:42
Oh, I don’t even need to think about this for a second. My favorite type of bento to get for the train is those. Tonkotsu sandwiches. So you take a pork cutlet and you deep fry it. And sometimes they have it in these pre-packaged white bread sandwiches, and sometimes they have it over a little bit of sliced cabbage, but those tonkotsu pork cutlets are my favorite thing. And then you get that Brown sauce with it, that sweet tonkatsu sauce. I love it. And that type of thing pairs so well

John Puma: 29:15
I was about to say, yes, this is 100% like this. I think you can have tonkatsu with this and it’s more than just going to stand up to it. Cause tonkatsu. It’s a little, it’s a little bit, it’s going to be a little greasy, a little bit oily. And I think it’s not only going to stand up to, it’s going to compliment it fantastically. I think it’s going to be, you know, right there with it. I want to say the last time I took a Shinkansen and got a bento before I got on. I actually got like a karaage box. Oh, so good. So delicious. And when I started sipping this, I was just like, Oh, I can really go for some Shinkansen karaage right now.

Timothy Sullivan: 29:56
So the tonkatsu has the tonkatsu sauce and the car has the Kewpie Mayonnaise like that. Japanese Mayonnaise. Oh, it’s so good.

John Puma: 30:04
Oh, this is making me hungry.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:05
All right. Well, Are really big, thanks to all our listeners for tuning in. I hope you have been enjoying our show and you enjoyed our lesson on all the different sake sizes today. If you’re interested in showing your support for sake revolution, one way to really help us out would be to take a couple of minutes and leave us a written review on Apple podcasts. It’s one of the best ways that you can help get the word out and support our show.

John Puma: 30:32
It really is. And if you, for some reason, can’t get to Apple podcast to leave us a review. The least you can do is tell a friend, and then you’re going to have your friends subscribe and you’re going to have your friend also go to Apple podcasts. And so going to be two of you, two reviews, well, at least one review and two subscriptions. So that every time we put an episode out, it magically shows up on your device.

Timothy Sullivan: 30:56
And as always to learn more about any of the topics or the sake we talked about in today’s episode, be sure to visit our website, SakeRevolution.com for all the detailed show notes.

John Puma: 31:07
And as always, we want to hear sake questions that come from our listeners. So if you have a burning sake question that you want answered, please reach out to [email protected] So until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake And Kanapi!