Episode 9 Show Notes
What the heck is a nigori sake? Cloudy, Murky, Coarse, Milky… there are lots of ways to describe what we call “nigori” sake. This of course is the milky-white, and sometimes sweet, cloudy sake you may have seen around. But, don’t enrage the Samurai… there is one word we don’t use to describe it… that is “unfiltered”. With the rice starch sediment floating around the bottle, we understand why, at first glance, you might think this could be “unfiltered” sake, but sake fans in the know understand that all premium sake in Japan must, by law, pass through a filter to be sold legally as sake. In reality, nigori is a coarsely-filtered sake. Truly “unfiltered” sake is actually illegal in Japan! This true unfiltered sake is known as ‘Doburoku’ – sold by special permit only – and is a chunky, rice-y affair that is the equivalent of drinking unprocessed sake fermentation mash. John and Timothy wade into the opaque world of nigori to see if they can bring any clarity to the understanding cloudy sake.
Skip to: 00:22
Welcome to the show from John and Timothy
“Doburoku” is actually what we could call a true unfiltered sake in Japan. It is allowed to be brewed my special permit only and is generally not widely available. So think you can eat it with a fork… or so Timothy says
This is a whisper light nigori that skips the “oribiki” racking step. this leaves bits of fine particulate in the sake.
Rihaku Tokubetsu Junmai Nigori
Classification: Nigori, Tokubetsu Junmai
Rice Type: Gohyakumangoku
Brewery: Rihaku Sake Brewing Co.
Sake Name English: Dreamy Clouds
Importer: Vine Connections (USA)
View On UrbanSake.com
Where to Buy?
NOTE: Use Discount Code “REVOLUTION” for 10% off your first order with Tippsy Sake.
Sake Tasting: Kato Sake Works Nigori
Brewery: Kato sake Works
Prefecture: Brooklyn, NY
Rice Type: Calrose
Where to Buy?
This is it! Join us next time for another episode of Sake Revolution!
Episode 9 Transcript
John Puma 0:22
Hello and welcome to Sake Revolution, America’s first sake podcast. I am your host John Puma, sake nerd at large and the founder of sakenotes.com and the administrator of the internet Sake Discord.
Timothy Sullivan 0:36
And I’m your host Timothy Sullivan. I’m a Sake Samurai, sake educator, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And together John and I will be tasting and chatting about all things sake.
John Puma 0:48
That’s right. And Tim, you know what, when I speak to people who are new to sake, I often get the same question every time.
Timothy Sullivan 0:57
Well, What’s that?
John Puma 0:59
They asked me About… Tim, they ask me about unfiltered sake.
Timothy Sullivan 1:04
HULK SMASH! Sorry, that was my inner Bruce Banner. I get very angry when someone talks to me about unfiltered sake. Let’s just say that this is a pet peeve of mine, John.
John Puma 1:17
All right. All right, I did not mean to enrage the sake samurai. But I think we both know what’s going to be going on in the sake education corner this week.
Timothy Sullivan 1:28
I knew this day has been coming. There’s no way around it. We need to address the cloudy elephant in the room.
Let’s talk about Nigori
John Puma 1:38
Alright, Tim, let’s talk about Nigori.
Timothy Sullivan 1:42
Were you surprised that I got so upset?
John Puma 1:46
You know, I think it’s the first time I’ve ever seen you raise your voice. You’re usually so mild mannered.
Timothy Sullivan 1:53
I am. I am. it’s it’s a it’s something that I’ve dealt with for 15 years and I I guess it’s just 15 years of pent up nigori anger just came out all at once.
John Puma 2:07
Then then this will be therapeutic. We need to talk this out.
Timothy Sullivan 2:10
Yes. Let’s work it out. Yeah. So let me ask you, John, are you a fan of nigori sake?
John Puma 2:18
I’m not especially although as, as we talked about on the show often with sake, there’s no hard and fast rules and there are always exceptions. So there are several nigori that I’m very, very fond of, but it’s not something I look for.
Timothy Sullivan 2:34
Okay, for our listeners who are just getting started with sake, how would you explain nigori to the beginners out there?
John Puma 2:41
Okay. So, if you’re a beginner, it’s the thing that you think is unfiltered sake….
But it’s not unfiltered,
Is it, Tim
Timothy Sullivan 2:53
How would you describe it?
John Puma 2:54
Timothy Sullivan 2:55
It’s cloudy, right?
It’s cloudy. Okay. I think most people who’ve gone to a sushi restaurant and ordered sake whether they got it themselves or not most people I think have seen this milky white cloudy sake out there. In Japanese we call it nigori. And in English we call it coarsely filtered sake and there’s one thing we never call it…
John Puma 3:18
Timothy Sullivan 3:22
Okay, I’ll admit we’re getting into pet peeve territory again, but
John Puma 3:27
we’re here to talk. It’s alright…
Timothy Sullivan 3:29
this is a safe space, right, the safe sake space.
I have to admit, I understand why people call it unfiltered. If you pick up the bottle, there’s all this white cloudy sediment in there. And it looks like it could be something that’s unfiltered, but we know that it’s not unfiltered. And do you know why that is?
John Puma 3:58
I don’t think you’re allowed to not filter sake.
Timothy Sullivan 4:01
That is correct. There is a law in Japan to legally sell your product as sake, it must pass through a filter. If it doesn’t pass through a filter of some kind, you can’t legally sell it a sake. So everything we drink that is legally sold as sake (nihonshu) goes through a filter if it comes from Japan.
John Puma 4:27
So if you don’t put it through the filter, what is it that?
Timothy Sullivan 4:34
Well, that is like completely unadulterated sake mash. So that’s like drinking sake right out of the tank. Right and completely unprocessed. And there’s actually a name for that. It’s called doburoku.
John Puma 4:49
Ah, yes, I’m, I’m somewhat very tangentially familiar with doburoku.
Timothy Sullivan 4:56
Something tells me from that comment. You’ve had doburoku before
John Puma 5:01
Tim I’ve definitely had a doburoku before, my wife really enjoys doburoku. And regardless of how much she enjoys it, I do my best not to chide her about it. Because it’s very much not my not my thing.
Timothy Sullivan 5:16
So, how would you explain doburoku to somebody it’s a very unique thing.
John Puma 5:23
I would say doburokuu. When I described doburoku to somebody it is. Oh, it’s the sake with big chunks of rice in it. Yeah. And that’s, that’s the visual that that I want people to have in their head when they think of it when you so if you’re somebody who has thought that nigori was unfiltered, if you saw this stuff, you would never make that mistake again. Because this is truly what unfiltered looks like.
Timothy Sullivan 5:50
Yes, I call doburoku the sake you can eat with a fork.
John Puma 5:57
I’ve never tried it.
Timothy Sullivan 5:58
It’s got big chunks of Rice in there and it’s like, you know if you’re tired of drinking it, you could get out your fork and start eating it. That’s how chunky it is people I’m telling you, yeah, and doburoku is actually something that is pretty rare in Japan. It’s not allowed to be brewed regularly you need a special license to sell doba Roku in Japan. Usually, small towns might have a doburoku festival ora shrine might be making doburoku for a religious ceremony. So there’s there’s some reasons where you can get your hands on doburoku but it’s really really pretty rare. And it is the chunkiest of chunky and it is really truly unfiltered sake.
John Puma 6:49
All right, and I don’t think we really get that here. Do we?
Timothy Sullivan 6:55
No, I haven’t seen it here.
John Puma 6:57
Yeah, me either.
Timothy Sullivan 7:00
I’m okay with that.
John Puma 7:01
I don’t mind.
Timothy Sullivan 7:05
So, that brings us back around to proper nigori or cloudy sake or coarsely filtered sake. But we do not call it
John Puma 7:17
Unfiltered. So coarsely filtered so it is still being filtered but they’re just, they’re kind of letting a little bit more through and that’s what we see in the bottle.
Timothy Sullivan 7:26
That’s right. Okay, the there’s different ways you can make nigori happen. One is to use a coarse fabric when you press the sake, little bits of rice starch get through the weave and end up some breweries press the sake clear. And then take some of the leftover kasu… the leftover pressings and mix them back into the clear sake and make it cloudy that way. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and some people use a very, very coarse filter if they want a super chunky sake. So there’s a wide range of thicknesses to nigori as well. Have you heard of usu-nigori before?
John Puma 8:10
I have? I actually really enjoy it most usu-nigori. Mostly because they tend to they tend to taste a little bit fresher to me. usu-nigori is very lightly nigori, so it’s, you know, there’s not a lot of sediment in there and it doesn’t it I don’t think it influences the flavor or the texture of the sake as much as it does with nigori. But I think that when sake comes over to United States. I think we’ve mentioned in our nama episode, that in transit, it sometimes loses a little something it changes a little bit. And in my experience is that usu-nigori sometimes it retains a little bit of that because of the solids. I’m not sure if that’s purely in my head, but it is the Definitely something that I’ve felt like I experienced before.
Timothy Sullivan 9:04
Yeah, there there’s a whole range of different weights to nigori. So I think usu-nigori is where you have like, as you said, the lightest kind of little bit of a wisp of, of sediment in there, then you can have a medium body to thicker bodied and on the far spectrum is that doburoku that completely unfiltered
John Puma 9:29
Timothy Sullivan 9:33
Yeah, so what…
Well, let’s talk Turkey for a second. Why do you think, Why do you think nigori is so popular with Americans? Because I agree with you. When I talk to people about sake. I go to a cocktail party. I meet people what do you do? Oh, I’m a sake teacher. Oh my god. I love unfiltered sake. I hear all the time. Why do you think cloudy sake is so popular with Americans?
John Puma 9:59
I mean, I think it probably is because it’s different. It is unusual. And I think that when people are thinking about sake, they… part of what draws them to wanting to try it is that it’s a little exotic. And I think that when they see that it’s a lot exotic. And so that maybe attracts people who otherwise would look at regular sake and think it was a little boring looking. Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan 10:27
I also think that nigori sake tends to be sweeter. That’s not true for every nigori. But the rice starch when it hits your tongue, the enzymes in your saliva convert that to sugar right away. So you do in some nigoris , you do get a burst of sweetness when you sip on it. I think the American palate is really skewed towards sweetness.
John Puma 10:54
Hmm, that makes sense.
Timothy Sullivan 10:56
Having grown up consuming my weight in Halloween candy, ever October as a child, I think I know where that comes from. But yeah, and I learned recently that did you know McDonald’s french fries are soaked in corn syrup before they’re deep fried. I had never heard that before.
John Puma 11:17
I have never heard that before either.
Timothy Sullivan 11:20
I was on YouTube and I was looking at this recipe for how to recreate McDonald’s french fries at home you know, this is kind of quarantine food culture happening but I was like, Oh my gosh, they soak it in corn syrup, and then they fry it so there’s sugar in everything in our culture.
John Puma 11:36
Yeah, there really is. There really is
Timothy Sullivan 11:38
I think the sweetness aspect to it is an attraction to a lot of people. And the other thing that I think is that the texture is so interesting, clear sakes are – can be very clean, appearing on the palate, some almost water-like but nigori has some real texture to it.
John Puma 12:04
It definitely does. Especially when you as you mentioned, there are plenty of different gradients of, of nigori it is not simply Oh, you is it’s always this amount. Are there any? Definitely I mean, I would imagine not here in the States, but in Japan apart from usu-nigori and doburoku being on the other end, do they have formalized
names for different types?
Timothy Sullivan 12:32
No, I would say I’ve heard descriptors like oh, thick nigori, medium nigori, light nigori, but there’s there’s not a set industry codified vocabulary that’s used. Usu nigori is the one term that people really embrace as an industry wide term for that very light, light nigori
John Puma 12:57
Interesting. All right.
So, in my in my travels, and I and I often confuse this with usu nigori,ra especially when I’m overseas. I encounter origarami.
Timothy Sullivan 13:12
John Puma 13:14
where does that fit into all of this?
Timothy Sullivan 13:17
will Ori is the word for the very fine particulate that is remaining in sake a after pressing. So after it goes through the sake press, there’s fine particulate. And normally you would let that settle out. So you take sake for about 10 days to two weeks and you let it sit in the tank and all that fine particulate floats to the bottom. That’s called the racking in the wine world where you pull off the clean sake and let all that sediment settle down. But if you leave that Ori that fine sediment in there, you have origarami sake so it it leaves that very trace amount of fine sediment. It’s similar to usu nigori in that it’s, it’s on the spectrum of being the much lighter side of what we would consider nigori .
John Puma 14:09
So Tim, one thing I did notice when I’m over in Japan, though, I don’t see nearly as much Nigori as I see other types of sake. And remember, people in United States are constantly asking for the U word. So, is it just like really popular here? Or like, is it not as popular there? Or is it all sold out when I get there? What’s going on?
Timothy Sullivan 14:34
nigori is very popular here in the States. But, you know, in Japan, there’s a little bit of cultural baggage associated with nigori. Nigori is not as popular in the market in Japan.
John Puma 14:49
Why is that?
Timothy Sullivan 14:50
Well, when sake was first made in Japan, it was cloudy and rough and not finely filtered. When they Introduced filtering technology, only the elite people with status – the Emperor in the Royal Court, they were the first people to get clear sake or filtered sake. So it became very associated with high status and refinements literal refinement. And so clear, filtered sake is really gained favor as something that’s more elegant, more preferred. And cloudy sake is took on a real country bumpkin, unsophisticated kind of rough and ready air to them. So that cultural stigma has kind of lingered related to nigori sake. But in the US we don’t have any of that history or any of that understanding. So Nigori, clear, it’s all kind of on equal footing. So americans i think tend to enjoy either one and not think twice about it. In Japan there is this little bit of leftover
baggage about what it means to have a cloudy sake versus a clear sake.
John Puma 16:06
That reminds me a little bit of the, the junmai versus the non-junmai conversation that we had were even though sake used at an alcohol for many years and it was only in the 70s that that law was lifted. Now everybody is pure rice or rephrase that now that’s very popular and trendy.
Timothy Sullivan 16:31
That is such a smart observation. I really agree with you. there there’s been, you know, for a long time, added alcohol was the way it was done. And then they brought back pure rice style. And then some people thought like, Oh, this has to be better. And in reality, you can enjoy both styles. But there are some people who have a bias towards the junmai the pure rice style. And there’s actually some breweries that only make junmai style sakes – they won’t even make the alcohol added style
John Puma 17:04
and there’s there’s bars that that I’ve seen in Japan that only serve the junmai style and it’s it is part of their part of their their their slogan is we only serve pure rice. Okay.
Timothy Sullivan 17:16
Yeah and I think that in relation to cloudy versus clear and junmai versus alcohol-added, my honest feeling is that the more variety the better. And I think that people should enjoy the widest variety they can and try all different styles. I always say there’s a lid for every pot, there’s a food pairing for every sake and there is a way to enjoy the widest variety, even if it’s not your favorite for everyday drinking. I think that there can be a food pairing or some way of enjoying it that’s going to grab just about everyone so I want people to enjoy a wide variety.
John Puma 17:57
So, even though nigori is not my favorite kind of sake. All this talk of nigori has me wanting to have some nigori.
Timothy Sullivan 18:07
There’s no way around him.
John Puma 18:09
No, No, we have to we’re going to have to confront this.
Timothy Sullivan 18:12
We have to dive right in.
So why don’t we both introduce the Nigori picks that we brought for today?
John Puma 18:21
Tim, why don’t you go ahead.
Timothy Sullivan 18:24
I have a sake that I remember from my very first days of getting into sake 15 years ago, so I know this is one of the sakes I had the very first year I started drinking sake, so it’s been exported for a long time. It’s called “Rihaku Nigori” . It’s a Tokubetsu Junmai and the English name for this is dreamy clouds. That’s a very evocative
John Puma 18:53
that’s, that’s a good name. I like
Timothy Sullivan 18:55
This sake is from Shimane Prefecture. It’s a gohyakumangoku sake rice, and our rice milling rate is 65%.
John Puma 19:07
Well, I brought something along that’s very local,
Timothy Sullivan 19:14
John Puma 19:15
Local! So, recently, right after the lockdowns started Kato Sake Works opened up in Brooklyn, and they make a nigori that they simply call Nigori. They also say “hazy” in quotes. I believe the title of the sake is just nigori and it uses Calrose milled down to 60%.
Timothy Sullivan 19:45
So we’ve got domestic nigori and an imported nigori. Yeah, so I’m going to go ahead and open mine up now. When you open an nigori One mistake I see people make sometimes is that they don’t invert their bottle. So Nigori is all that sediment and if the bottle has been standing undisturbed for a while, the sediment is going to settle down to the bottom and you’ll have it all collected at the bottom of the bottle. So it’s important to gently invert the bottle before you open it and distribute that sediment back around through the bottle. I’ve gone to some restaurants where I’ve ordered a nigori and the waiter opened the bottle and started pouring and it came out relatively clear and I’m like, I know this is a cloudy sake and the person did not invert the bottle before opening and thats not good. So you have to be sure when you open a cloudy sake to give it a little inversion so that you can distribute those sediment that’s in there. The only caveat to that is make sure it’s not a sparkling nigori, or you’re in big trouble with that.
John Puma 21:02
Well, then you’re just very, very gently turn the bottle. Yes. And then very, very slowly turn it back, and then take a step back. And then you come back. Yep.
Timothy Sullivan 21:12
So I’ve got the nigori in my wineglass and when we look at nigori in a clear glass, you want to see how much it sticks to the side of the glass because you can get some nigoris that are going to give you a very distinct coating on the side of the glass. And I’m getting I’m getting some here, but it’s very light. This Rihaku gives me a very light kind of coating. The thickness is a medium to light bodied, but you definitely cannot see through this. So it’s a solid, solid nigori but it’s not so chunky that it’s leaving residue on the side of the glass for to any great extent. I’m going to give it a smell. So it smells ricey Smells like rice pudding, and it smells. It smells sweet. But there’s that there’s a if you made rice pudding and then you put it in the fridge and it was cold, it’s kind of that that that smell
and I’m gonna give it a taste.
Hmm. So it’s very creamy coats my mouth but at the finish you get the alcohol and a little dry bite at the end. So there’s a dryness, it’s not all sweetness. It’s not all like marshmallow sweetness, tropical coconut flavors, there’s a there’s a alcohol dryness at the end to balance out that sweetness. So it’s got really good balance and it’s really very drinkable. If it was any thicker than this, I think it would get into the territory. That’s not my personal preference. But this this, the weight that we have going on here with the Rihaku tokubetsu Junmai, I think is really enjoyable and really nice. Yes, yeah. So how about you? I’m curious how the Bushwick Brooklyn sake is gonna stand up to Shimane Prefecture.
John Puma 23:11
Well, let’s see. We do have really nice water here in New York.
Timothy Sullivan 23:16
We do best pizza best bagels in the world.
John Puma 23:19
Yeah, they tell me that’s why the bagels and apparently you’ve heard the same. Apparently everybody hears the same stories.
Alright, so I’m pouring into my wineglass now. And
this looks to be a little bit a little bit cloudier than what you described on yours to be completely fair.
It is almost opaque
swirling around the glass does leave a little bit of, of residue on the side as it should.
Timothy Sullivan 23:56
There’s some film
John Puma 23:57
but not too much, it actually keeps to itself pretty well.
Now on the nose
it’s kind of like it’s a kinda like a
fresh grass and also like, like sour apple like a granny smith apple kind of like that like I’ll say you you kind of crushed up a Granny Smith Apple a little bit and then had it out for a few minutes and let it kinda – let it, let the aromas really come out of it
and the taste is actually a is it continues that it really goes well with the with the aroma it does have that you know that that’s almost almost Sour Apple kind of flavor but when I say sour I mean like like like a like a granny smith or an apple a lot of that time
Timothy Sullivan 24:54
when I think of a granny smith apple. I think of something that’s tart. Is it like a tartness?
John Puma 24:59
Yes, I think tart and sour are too far away. No,
Timothy Sullivan 25:04
they’re not. Yeah.
Does it feel weighty on your palate? Because I know I can see the textures a little bit thicker. Does it feel heavier?
John Puma 25:16
Not really. We’ve tasted ginjo sakes is on this very show that had much more. Much more action on the mouthfeel. Much, much thicker this, despite it being a nigori does not have that thickness to it. I don’t feel my mouth getting overly coated by it, although I’m sure it’s happening slowly, as I sip more of it. It’s nice and I think that the flavor is is going to be kind of strong enough to deal with kind of bigger flavors too. What would have you have you had much experience pairing with nigori?
Timothy Sullivan 25:54
Oh, I sure have
absolutely. The word nigori in English literally means murky or not clear. So that’s really all we get when we say nigori. And it’s important to remember when we talk about food pairings that it can be anywhere along the spectrum. from, you know, you can barely see the sediment to eat it with a fork, so we could be anywhere in there. I think mine is a touch on the lighter side compared to yours. But you know, when you were talking about the texture of it, I was thinking if I was blind tasting this, like if I had a blindfold on and I couldn’t see it would I know it was a nigori? I’m hoping I would but the it’s relatively light, I don’t think I would be able to tell just by tasting it. That’s how kind of light bodied this one is.
when we pair food with nigori, we have to remember that nigori is really have more of a pronounced texture in general. And they have What we would consider more of a creamy texture and I like to pair nigori a couple different ways. One is with spicy food. nigori can act like you know, if you have spicy Greek foods, sometimes they serve that yogurt on the side that cools/calms down the spice. And
it’s similar with pairing with a nigori if you have an nigori that’s a little more creamy. And you have something with a little like a spicy Pad Thai or something and you sip on a nigori with that it really calms the spice down and balances that out. And that the little bit of sweetness and the little good of creaminess you get in nigori can balance out a gentle spice really nicely. Not a super super melt your face kind of spicy food but you know, a gentle, a gentle Asian spicy dishes really good with nigori and briefly the other thing that we do a lot of is dessert. So if you have a really creamy Nigori that has more of a creamy almost pina colada texture to it. Those tend to be noticeably sweeter, very, very rich and creamy. We’d love to pair those with dark chocolate or chocolate desserts. They pair really well because you get that kind of creamy tropical fruit coconut essence to them and those pair really well with some desserts. Have you ever had any experience pairing these cloudy sakes with with any different foods
John Puma 28:36
occasionally, because I don’t drink them as much I have less experience and pairing is a is a is a blind spot for me in a lot of in a lot of cases. But
I want to have this with I want to have like a hamburger with this.
I typically put like a little bit of horseradish And maybe some, like Chipotle Mayo on a burger occasionally.
Timothy Sullivan 29:04
John Puma 29:05
And I think this would go really well with that. And it’s it got me craving a little bit. I think, I think our conversation with chris johnson last week, left an impression on me that while I’m sipping Sake, I want to be thinking about what I want to eat with it. Yeah, so doing that a little bit more, and this is what’s popping into my head here.
Timothy Sullivan 29:26
So those condiments you mentioned is that get us into a little bit of spicy territory I was talking about?
John Puma 29:31
a little bit, it’s gonna bring it it’s gonna make them it’s gonna bring it away from being, you know, meaty, smoky and bring it into a little bit more. A little bit more of a light spice to it. Yeah.
Timothy Sullivan 29:46
Well, you know, one, one last thing I want to talk about regarding Nigori is a little bit of a cautionary tale too. So Nigori has all this sediment in it and the sediment is the Pure rice starch. So when you press the sake, the rice starch sediment that did not ferment, a little bit gets left in there and that’s what makes it cloudy. And it’s important to pay attention to the bottle to make sure that that doesn’t discolor over time, you can have nigoris that the rice starch will discolor and they’ll turn a very unpleasant brown color.
John Puma 30:25
Timothy Sullivan 30:25
I once went to a liquor store in the Midwest, I was traveling for business. It was in the middle of nowhere, and I found a brand of Nigori that I actually like. And I picked up the bottle and I disturbed the sediment. It was a clear bottle and it was brown as mud and it should be white as snow. And this bottle had probably been sitting on the shelf for four or five years just in the sun, direct sunlight. And they had it out they had no idea something was wrong with it and It is something to be aware of that when you have a nigori, you want to keep it protected from light and you want to drink it as quickly as possible. Any any discoloration to the sediment is a sign that maybe that bottles over the hill
John Puma 31:14
that I’m glad I haven’t had that experience. keep me away from Nigori in a big way.
I don’t like the idea of a turning, that’s going from cloudy to stormy!
We don’t like that.
I think that’s all about Nigori for now.
Timothy Sullivan 31:41
So john, do you think we’ve worked out our Nigori issues?
John Puma 31:46
I think we have.
You had slightly larger Nigori issues than I did. But we The important thing is we talked it out.
Timothy Sullivan 31:55
some post traumatic Nigori stress That’s true, but I feel Much better now after talking to you, I think there’s there’s a lot of love for Nigori out there. We just have to avoid that, that one word that might trigger me. But other than that, I think Nigori is something wonderful and we should all enjoy it as much as we can.
John Puma 32:13
And you’re sipping on Nigori and you’re enjoying it. So yes,
Timothy Sullivan 32:16
John Puma 32:17
you could. There’s peace.
Timothy Sullivan 32:19
I feel very safe. Good. This this was a good episode. This is a happy ending.
John Puma 32:24
Timothy Sullivan 32:28
All right. Well, thank you all so much for tuning in. If you can, please take a moment and rate our show on Apple podcasts.
John Puma 32:36
And to make sure that you don’t miss an episode, please make sure you subscribe to our podcast this way. It just shows up on your phone whenever you’re not looking.
Timothy Sullivan 32:46
And as always, to learn more about any of the topics or the particular sakes we’ve talked about in today’s episode, visit our website sakerevolution.com and there you’ll find our detailed show notes.
John Puma 33:00
And of course we want you to send us your feedback. If you have any show ideas people you want us to talk to sakes, he wants to drink, drop us an email anytime at [email protected] So until next time, please remember to keep drinking sake and KANPAI!!